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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED - DSLRs and where the market is heading.

Vladimir Cassel said:
Yes, I'm aware of this. Not that I don't think I have a lot to learn from the people and professionals of this board, but I don't feel that that really helps. And I'm not here to advocate for DSLRs either. Truth be told, if I could have any cam right now that would be appropriate for the kind of work I'd like to do it would be the Arri 16mm.

I'm just saying that Red cameras aren't always within the grasp of everyone who has intent and vision. Even the Scarlett will be just out of my budget to own. But that doesn't mean all is lost. In the realm of filmmakers who have no choice, money, or resources of crew other than attempt to be an 'auteur', professionalism is not the sole domain of having great equipment. As many examples exist that professional and exemplary visual narrative can be crafted out of less than professional and exemplary tools. I just hope that you keep the less fortunate of us in mind when you decide to use euphemisms to infer at what cost competence and professionalism comes at.
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Very well said, Vladmir, very well said. Although I am on the side of the professionals, I see your point. But please choose a Red camera over S16mm.
I do understand your personal choice statement.
 
Can we please return to the core issue of this thread?

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Dan Kanes said:
I'll say it again...

Red is the new Digital Film.

HDSLR is the new miniDV
.
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That is just inaccurate and because it exaggerates in the other direction it is just as harmful.

MiniDV was never anywhere close too traditional film quality in resolution; aspect (unless you take film back 75 years to the 4:3 days); or sensor size/DOF characteristics. 720pish 16:9 digital from a really good modern sensor (as the 5d and 7d are) is "in the ball park" of what typical moviegoers have seen in cinemas for many years.

Is it as good as recent film/lens systems or modern high end digicams like the Red - no - but neither are the majority of classic and not so classic films people have seen over the past 40 years. (I didn't say as good, I said in the ballpark.)
 
level playing field

level playing field

Ironically, these are the cameras to level the playing field- it's what Red started.
Since now everyone has access to decent quality gear and world wide broadcast channel(internet) it's back down to script and vision/talent. IMO it's what ultimately will force Hollywod from (proverbial) "Sex in the city II" back to
(proverbial)"Godfather".
Or, they could say F$%K IT and go CGI all the way...:emote_popcorn:
 
shashbugu said:
Very well said, Vladmir, very well said. Although I am on the side of the professionals, I see your point. But please choose a Red camera over S16mm.
I do understand your personal choice statement.
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Thank you for the encouragement! It's a difficult thing to find these days.

The reason I'm into 16mm footage fight now has to do with my upcoming first film. I plan on renting a desolate, gigantic hotel from the 20s for a couple of weeks with some ill-advised student loans and filming a horror feature there. Not that I have any particular fondness for the genre, but it's the easiest thing for a beginner like me to do--take some kids to a remote place and chop them up; a dressed up stageplay.

What I love is the look of 70s horror films with the slight, warm lighting mostly coming from practicals and the grain. I love that character! It's important for me not to have the total clarity high definition digital would provide on this particular project in order to enhance the narrative.
 
Vladimir Cassel said:
Thank you for the encouragement! It's a difficult thing to find these days.

The reason I'm into 16mm footage fight now has to do with my upcoming first film. I plan on renting a desolate, gigantic hotel from the 20s for a couple of weeks with some ill-advised student loans and filming a horror feature there. Not that I have any particular fondness for the genre, but it's the easiest thing for a beginner like me to do--take some kids to a remote place and chop them up; a dressed up stageplay.

What I love is the look of 70s horror films with the slight, warm lighting mostly coming from practicals and the grain. I love that character! It's important for me not to have the total clarity high definition digital would provide on this particular project in order to enhance the narrative.
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if you dont have a distributor, you should think trice if you really want to use loans to shoot.
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
if you dont have a distributor, you should think trice if you really want to use loans to shoot.
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I don't have a distributor, and I know it's more than a gamble and probably altogether ill-advised, but I really feel the need to put myself out there and develop/produce/direct something. Something in which I can work out all the kinks in my abilities and maybe, just maybe, if it's good enough, impress some people and get it picked up. If not that then try and send out to the major director's fellowships. I feel it's a risk I just need to take. No one's going to hold those doors open for me.
 
You go, Vlad. Good luck. Do what you feel you have to do. I have to wonder though, if film is required to prove directorial chops.
 
Vladimir, i really like your optimism,
hope you have one of the success stories.

but here is the other side of the coin:
a friend of mine did the same...shooting a low budget feature funded by loans.
the movie was even good.

but he failed to sell....wrong timing.
there are more factores involved.

think of a distributors POV:

-do i have similar films in my portfolio
-would the timing of the release be good for that type of movie
-cast
-if we dont have a name cast, can we sell the story of how the movie was made?
-how much would that cost us?
- what is the audience?
- how did our last products run in the theatres? i E, can we allow us to have a financial loss, would this hurt us too much?


you see?---- what is the unique selling point of the movie?
Best timing is when distributors just made a lot of money with a couple different movies.
its not enough to have a good movie.

back to the story of my friend,
today he still works his ass off to pay back that loan.
disher, every shit job out there you can think of.
wasnt able to make another movie, simply because he had no more free time anymore...you have to pay back.
this was 6 years ago and did cost him 50 000 €. -70 000 €.

do whatever you have to do, but do it reasonable
 
Scott Crawley said:
You go, Vlad. Good luck. Do what you feel you have to do. I have to wonder though, if film is required to prove directorial chops.
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Thanks! I'm just glad I have a place like this with real pros where I can silently absorb the experience and knowledge.

Nah. To be honest, film freaks me out a little. I know less about it, and where there's more moving parts and more things to do it seems to me that more can go wrong. It's an option given that we have the Arri camera at my school, but it may not be what I ultimately decide on. Especially because I'm hoping I'll be granted permission to do all night shoots there, and I don't know if my school will let me use their equipment on off hours. That means the Red One would be off limits too, but I'd be on a waiting list to use it anyway. It may end up being the T2i out of necessity. I just wonder if I can process the look I want into it in post.
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
Vladimir, i really like your optimism,
hope you have one of the success stories.

but here is the other side of the coin:
a friend of mine did the same...shooting a low budget feature funded by loans.
the movie was even good.

but he failed to sell....wrong timing.
there are more factores involved.

think of a distributors POV:

-do i have similar films in my portfolio
-would the timing of the release be good for that type of movie
-cast
-if we dont have a name cast, can we sell the story of how the movie was made?
-how much would that cost us?
- what is the audience?
- how did our last products run in the theatres? i E, can we allow us to have a financial loss, would this hurt us too much?


you see?---- what is the unique selling point of the movie?
Best timing is when distributors just made a lot of money with a couple different movies.
its not enough to have a good movie.

back to the story of my friend,
today he still works his ass off to pay back that loan.
disher, every shit job out there you can think of.
wasnt able to make another movie, simply because he had no more free time anymore...you have to pay back.
this was 6 years ago and did cost him 50 000 €. -70 000 €.

do whatever you have to do, but do it reasonable
Click to expand...

Yikes! Yeah, I do think of that and your friend's story gives me even more to chew on. My sympathies go out to him!

My main motivation for this is that I wouldn't like to have lived my life and not made at least one film. I wouldn't want to ruin my life over it either.

Right now it's still in the air. I'm waiting to find out how much the place will cost and how much the probably required insurance would cost to film there. Any other money I can get for it will need to go to competent talent who are willing to take risks in front of crew (mostly myself) and collaborate on performances. I'm holding off on finishing the script until I know I have someplace to actually film it.

I was reworking a script that my older, half-brother had written a while ago. He asked me to hold off on it because it was going to the Coen Brothers on Monday (my brother is a novelist and screenwriter who's been optioned by Sony on a big project in the 90s). Sam Raimi has recently attached himself as a producer to a very similar project, so I don't think the script is going to go anywhere. I've been feeling more than listless since and I'm just getting the itch to try and prove myself. Just hope I can find my way through.
 
set yourself a limit, 20 000 or so,

inmho it doesnt matter if you have 20 000 or 100 000.

20 000 can be handled in some way if it goes wrong, if it goes well, better for you, less money needed to recoup
 
The question I had reading this was why spend the money on the hotel. Does it HAVE to be shot in an abandoned hotel? I would think there'd be a ton of FREE locations to shoot that would get the story across. I'd much rather take a loan out on gear that I could use on multiple projects rather than on one location for one film. Sounds like you have quite the drive though, so don't let me stop you.

Regarding the whole debate though, I think it's very interesting to see how reality plays out. As much as I hate that some people can't "appreciate" higher quality, I've had to realize that if the client is happy and thinks it's "good enough", that that's all that matters. If I had the funds right now, I would have bought a system myself. Since I don't, it buys me time to save up and wait for the Scarlet, which I know I would be more satisfied with in the long run.
 
Bruce Buck said:
The question I had reading this was why spend the money on the hotel. Does it HAVE to be shot in an abandoned hotel? I would think there'd be a ton of FREE locations to shoot that would get the story across. I'd much rather take a loan out on gear that I could use on multiple projects rather than on one location for one film. Sounds like you have quite the drive though, so don't let me stop you.

Regarding the whole debate though, I think it's very interesting to see how reality plays out. As much as I hate that some people can't "appreciate" higher quality, I've had to realize that if the client is happy and thinks it's "good enough", that that's all that matters. If I had the funds right now, I would have bought a system myself. Since I don't, it buys me time to save up and wait for the Scarlet, which I know I would be more satisfied with in the long run.
Click to expand...

Sorry I haven't responded, but I was hoping not to hijack this thread too much with my problems.

I want the location mostly because it inspired the story. A horror film that's essentially a (supernatural) Monster-in-the-House story needs a good house to be trapped in. It's also because of the time period and state of abandonment the hotel is in. I can't afford a Production Designer--not that there's an abundance of them in Palm Beach, Florida anyways--or even to dress the set myself, so I need someplace that's already set-up and 'designed' to serve the story.

And I'm hoping not to take out more than $5000 in a smart option student loan. I know I'm eligable for $5000 in Pell Grants this year that I don't have to pay back, but I don't know what the payout schedule will be like. Added to that I hope to try out for some scholarships like the one Kodak offers to film students.
 
Vladimir Cassel said:
Thanks! I'm just glad I have a place like this with real pros where I can silently absorb the experience and knowledge.

Nah. To be honest, film freaks me out a little. I know less about it, and where there's more moving parts and more things to do it seems to me that more can go wrong. It's an option given that we have the Arri camera at my school, but it may not be what I ultimately decide on. Especially because I'm hoping I'll be granted permission to do all night shoots there, and I don't know if my school will let me use their equipment on off hours. That means the Red One would be off limits too, but I'd be on a waiting list to use it anyway. It may end up being the T2i out of necessity. I just wonder if I can process the look I want into it in post.
Click to expand...

This sounds like the perfect project for a T2i or 7D, either of which could be bought and kitted out for less than 16mm film and processing costs for a feature length film and you then own the means to shoot other projects to help amortize the costs. Other elements like lighting, production design, and post processing can help give the look you want.Test shoots as part of production design can help you decide the best approach. I would not undertake a feature on 16mm without being experienced enough to be comfortable shooting it efficiently and well. Digital allows low cost practice and as a student that is what is most important: shoot, make mistakes, learn, correct.
 
That GH1 looks great! It might be worth it for me to wait another paycheck and get that over the T2i.

But guys, I'm starting to wonder about the Scarlet. It's so tempting to wait to get the next better thing and then the next. I wonder if it's worth holding out on the 2/3" Scarlet Fixed. I know this probably isn't the right place to load up on questions like this, but as a noob, I hope you'll forgive me.

My main questions on it: do you see anyway the fixed lens might turn out to become a hindrence to me in my quest for professional looking visual narrative? Would I need a Red Rocket card to get things going into my computer at home? Finally, what's the expected release date?

It's a beautiful camera to be sure, and an ingenious idea. I just wonder if I can find someway to afford it without prompting my GF to leave me. Where there's a will there's a way, I suppose!
 
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HOLY CRAP! The GH1 just won me over!
Oh, well, until Scarlet comes out -- then that will steal me back ofc :)
 
Vladimir Cassel said:
That GH1 looks great! It might be worth it for me to wait another paycheck and get that over the T2i.

But guys, I'm starting to wonder about the Scarlet. It's so tempting to wait to get the next better thing and then the next. I wonder if it's worth holding out on the 2/3" Scarlet Fixed. I know this probably isn't the right place to load up on questions like this, but as a noob, I hope you'll forgive me.

My main questions on it: do you see anyway the fixed lens might turn out to become a hindrence to me in my quest for professional looking visual narrative? Would I need a Red Rocket card to get things going into my computer at home? Finally, what's the expected release date?

It's a beautiful camera to be sure, and an ingenious idea. I just wonder if I can find someway to afford it without prompting my GF to leave me. Where there's a will there's a way, I suppose!
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No release date on any of the cameras , yet

scarlet will come after epic

i doubt it will be a hinderance unless you need extremely shallow dof to look professional ... it should be great for low budget films with its form factor and weight you will be able to use DSLR rigs like zacuto

and that will save you plenty compared to film alone

you wont have to have a rocket card but a mac pro at least is recommended by many

i believe scarlet fixed is $2700 for a kit so no need to buy lots of modules

thats very comparable to the 5d mark ii but the gh1 is half that
 
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