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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Dragon SSD Run Times

Yeah would love to know how fast it burns thru Red Mags
 
Don't forget that, whilst most will end up shooting at 6K, many of the people who have used/tested the Dragon have used higher compression settings than on the current Epic.

Check Toia/Phil etc (and others) threads about the Dragon for their commnets.
 
I'm about to begin DIT'ing a feature film with 2 Dragons and we are struggling to find any Red documentation support decisions on Compression Ratio's
 
Here you go.

dragonrecordingtime.jpg
 
As for compression choices - do your own tests to satisfy yourself. Dragon gains through increased resolution, IF you use it. Any compression artefacts shrink by default compared to MX if you use the 6k modes.

Dragon also benefits from improvements in image noise, and in redcode itself.

Below is a 100% crop from a very mean compression killer test I use to evaluate this stuff... but don't take my word for it :)

 
Looks like we are shooting Dragon 5K 7:1 for a 4K Cinema Finish. Any thoughts on the matter would be well received.
Also we might shoot Epic as 2nd camera for a few days as we wait for the 2nd Dragon to return... Anyone have a suggested matching Redcode for the Epic? 5:1 or 3:1?
 
5K 7:1 is fine most of the time. I'd go to the best redcode I can manage in low light or very detailed scenes.

Matching Epic to Dragon in this sense, I presume you'll be shooting 4K to match lens coverage? If so I'd use 5:1 and limit my ISO a little - don't go over 800, and if you can under-rate to 500 in safe lighting conditions your image will have closer to Dragon noise level.
 
John, could you comment on fan noise with Dragon as you decrease compression.

With Epic, under hot studio lighting conditions, 7:1 was good, below - fans were kicking in too quick for it to be usable in long take sync sound conditions. The new adaptive fan setting seems better, but with increased data/heat seems like fans will kick in much sooner with dragon. What is your experience, if you shoot 6k 4:1 or 5:1 under studio lights wont the fan start ramping up pretty quick?

John Marchant said:
As for compression choices - do your own tests to satisfy yourself. Dragon gains through increased resolution, IF you use it.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Again John :)

Is there any truth to Redcode or Compression Ratio affecting the bit depth of the R3D files?
i.e. Changing from 16bit to 14bit or even to 12bit?
 
John, thanks for posting the first ever MX vs Dragon sensor test !
( even if it was only a 17 megabit mp4 ;) )
 
I was reluctant to post even that to be honest Les... but it seemed pertinent. I'm much more for people doing their own tests. If you need to do it before purchasing, rental's always an option.
 
I'm happy to shoot under hot lights in studio all day in adaptive mode set to either 65 or 70 degrees. Fan noise is reasonable and stable... generally better behaved than Epic MX on energy consumption / heat by a small degree.
 
+1 on the adaptive mode (Epic MX). I did a blackshade at 70 degrees and set adaptive mode to maintain at 64 degrees. fan does not come on at 70 degree recording temp and runs quietly when not recording to maintain at 64 degrees.
 
After looking at the different compression ratios in BaseLight we have decided to shoot 8:1 5K, anyone have any thoughts on the matter?
 
Andy White said:
Don't forget that, whilst most will end up shooting at 6K, many of the people who have used/tested the Dragon have used higher compression settings than on the current Epic.

Check Toia/Phil etc (and others) threads about the Dragon for their commnets.
Click to expand...

15:1 @2000 .... :-)


http://vimeo.com/75608786


Gunleik has the data

Gunleik Groven said:
OK

Here it is.

Ungraded
Just "off the cam"

ISO 2000 and compression 15:1 (!!!)

Shot by Detlev


(have in mind the standard crap vimeo does...)
Click to expand...
 
Wezley Joao Ferreira said:
Looks like we are shooting Dragon 5K 7:1 for a 4K Cinema Finish. Any thoughts on the matter would be well received.
Also we might shoot Epic as 2nd camera for a few days as we wait for the 2nd Dragon to return... Anyone have a suggested matching Redcode for the Epic? 5:1 or 3:1?
Click to expand...

Sigh - a cropped lens will not look the same as a wider field of view - resolution is not the only issue. Years after Red's release, people are still fixating on resolution whereas lens field of view is so much more important. The wider the better until you start to see vignetting and/or edge softness to a degree that is not pleasing to you. 5K is giving you a smaller physical sensor size than 6K.

I also find it amusing that no one here has read the countless studies that show most viewers cannot tell the difference between 2K and 4K finishes or even between 2K and 4K displays- their eyes just don't have the ability. I'm sure at 1:1 zoom pressing your face against the monitor you can see differences, but for the most important criteria - what the vast majority of viewers will be able to see - what looks good in 2K looks good in 4K. Its' not about screen size, it's about size vs viewing distance - i.e. the eye's field of view within the image. Unless in a Imax theater (which has viewers much closer vs screen size) 2K and 4K simply LOOK THE SAME to almost all viewers. If they do look different, that difference is so subtle most viewers will not care. They are far more likely to notice everything else.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
Sigh - a cropped lens will not look the same as a wider field of view - resolution is not the only issue. Years after Red's release, people are still fixating on resolution whereas lens field of view is so much more important. The wider the better until you start to see vignetting and/or edge softness to a degree that is not pleasing to you. 5K is giving you a smaller physical sensor size than 6K.

I also find it amusing that no one here has read the countless studies that show most viewers cannot tell the difference between 2K and 4K finishes or even between 2K and 4K displays- their eyes just don't have the ability. I'm sure at 1:1 zoom pressing your face against the monitor you can see differences, but for the most important criteria - what the vast majority of viewers will be able to see - what looks good in 2K looks good in 4K.
Click to expand...
I was about to post the bit about field of view before I saw that you just mentioned it. Interesting to note, however, that you're trumpeting the importance of getting that wide field of view from the camera (I agree), but you're downplaying the importance of resolution - which with these cameras go hand in hand. In other words, the mode with the widest field of view on a RED also contains the most resolution. So while you may not personally feel that 6K is necessary (I would disagree there, but we all have our opinions!), you have no choice but to shoot it if you want the field of view you're after.

If there was a downsampling mode in-camera (which many, many have asked for), the story would be different, but alas this is not the case at the current time.
 
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