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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Dragon DSMC depreciation

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Leroy Jackson

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Whats the real reason the DSMC bodies have depreciated so much? I mean I seen a package for 14K O.B.O.
I know Tech is constantly on the move but I see Arri cameras holding there value far FAR longer than Red.
I had mines up for 23K and when I seen how low the prices where I decided not to even bump the thread be
cause there going for so so cheap. And heck I thought I had a pretty good package. SMH. Lesson learned I guess.
Nice camera though.
 
It all depends. Paying 20-23k for a great package from a RELIABLE seller who is determined to be honest, may be much more attractive than some random guy who says he has a cheap red for sale.

Can't speak about Arri camera values, however I'm pretty sure they dont Have a trade in program established like red does. Also, I've always thought it was very thoughtful of RED not to lower prices on cameras when they announce/deliver new ones. Their Cameras remain the same price until they are no longer available.

At the moment MANY have taken advantage of the AMAZING deals on new DSMC2 camera bodies, as a result their may not be as many buyers looking right now.

Long story short, your camera still holds value. As it is the brain is worth $15k to RED if you decide to trade up to EPIC-W
 
RED releases surprise camera bodies/sensors often, which fill gaps and create new gaps and then fills those new gaps.
That devalues older cameras, but it's just part of the game. I'd prefer the simple 2-tier model of the Epic MX/Scarlet MX days, so that I know there's not something new coming in a few months that will make me hesitate to spend. But it's a business, so I understand.
If Arri kept releasing in-between cameras and different sensor sizes, I think the same would happen to the value of those cams.

A used Epic Dragon is the biggest steal on the market right now.
 
There's more red bodies out there also
 
Yeah I'm defiantly not random lol. And I must admit the DSMC 2 bodies are hard to bead and there at every price point. BUT regardless of them having a trade in program.... which is nice and all......
The Arri mini which was released in what May 2015 and it still commands dang near what it cost new lol USED. Its a age on conversation but DOAM 14K.... WHOLE PACKAGE.
 
The sure fire solution to price depreciation on a RED camera is to stop reading the ads and just ignore it. ;-) After all, every RED camera still shoots REDcode and that beats almost every other camera out there.
 
I sold my entire package for way less than market value because I got a great deal on the Scarlet-w to Epic-w upgrade. I wanted a quick sale to offset the price. Several people I know did the same. Sold btwn $15-20k on varying package contents.
 
RED bodies depreciate way faster due to the speed at which RED makes new camera bodies, reselling older models will definitely have a steep depreciation value. ARRi's on the other hand don't make new bodies or even sensors very often. They've been using the same sensor for years, so they don't depreciate much at all.

However the benefit to RED is that they offer an upgrade path which is incredible for us camera owners. If you don't sell your body and keep on the RED train, you are essentially upgrading at better value. ARRI does not offer any upgrade path, so if Alexa mini 2 came out, there is (currently) no way for alexa mini owners to upgrade to the mini 2 (I confirmed this info at ARRI), though even the older models still wouldn't depreciate that much.
 
It all started with Weapon Mg. That thing messed up the flow and randomness ensued, lol.
 
I asked this same question... but then I stopped caring. Alexa is a great cam but expensive and not future proof for the people who want 4k. -- Worked for Netflix and their list of cameras ranged from crappy to great. And none of them allowed Arri. And for that very reason I bought into the RED game.
 
Akin A said:
...If Arri kept releasing in-between cameras and different sensor sizes, I think the same would happen to the value of those cams.
Click to expand...

They have and it didn't, go figure...

Jarred Land said:
...there are a total of 13 different versions of an Alexa out there.
Alexa Classic EV
Alexa SXT EV
Alexa SXT Plus
Alexa SXT Studio
Alexa Mini
Alexa XT
Alexa XT Plus
Alexa XT M
Alexa XT Studio
Alexa Plus
Alexa Plus 4:3
Alexa M
Alexa Studio.
Click to expand...
 
There are many owner/operators of Red Cameras. Not So much on Arri side. The depreciation happens because many owner operators, for various reasons, sell their cameras at very low price points. The baseline should be set by Red and how much they value the camera at trade in. Red accepts 15K for the Epic Dragon Brain. A working Dragon would be, with accessories, + 8K at least on that number.

The 15K packages we see are people going absolutely insane. If I had the money, I would definitely grab me one of those!
 
Sergio Perez said:
There are many owner/operators of Red Cameras. Not So much on Arri side. The depreciation happens because many owner operators, for various reasons, sell their cameras at very low price points. The baseline should be set by Red and how much they value the camera at trade in. Red accepts 15K for the Epic Dragon Brain. A working Dragon would be, with accessories, + 8K at least on that number.

The 15K packages we see are people going absolutely insane. If I had the money, I would definitely grab me one of those!
Click to expand...


And it's not like these 14K packages have 2000 hours on em, Brandon had one for 15k with I think 60 hours on it. I think he had a few Carbon Dragon kits with
carbon screens for 18,000 for a full ready to go package. I'm not bashing Red at all I love my camera and have decided to keep it at this point but DANG lol.
Mister Land has a good point kinda. Some are variations though. like the SXT series and the XT series and the Mini is a srunk down version of the XT plus. In any event
The red is still a great camera though guess I was just a little surprised to see the prices drop like they did. Anywho carry on haha.
 
Leroy Jackson said:
And it's not like these 14K packages have 2000 hours on em, Brandon had one for 15k with I think 60 hours on it. I think he had a few Carbon Dragon kits with
carbon screens for 18,000 for a full ready to go package. I'm not bashing Red at all I love my camera and have decided to keep it at this point but DANG lol.
Mister Land has a good point kinda. Some are variations though. like the SXT series and the XT series and the Mini is a srunk down version of the XT plus. In any event
The red is still a great camera though guess I was just a little surprised to see the prices drop like they did. Anywho carry on haha.
Click to expand...

Arri kept the same sensor all along so you get the same image regardless of the model. Red is more like "work in progress", always pushing newest models by promoting better colors, less noise, more resolution, more DR, better ergonomy which lead people to think unconsciously that the previous models are outdated and obsolete. Red also cut the prices, offer upgrades (selling a used Epic-W for more than the seller bought it new via these offers seems questionable for many according to a recent thread) or release cheaper models with almost the same specs as the older top of the line ones. It's a bit of a mess pricewise. Another difference with Arri is that there are not a lot of Alexa bought for recreational purposes. Seeing the number of backyard/flowers/slowmo walk/dogs and tests shot on Red all over Youtube and Vimeo, it seems many people buy these cameras without any serious purpose and sooner or later sell them because they didn't use them or just want to buy newer models. There's a lot more Red cameras out there than the industry needs.
 
Leroy Jackson said:
And it's not like these 14K packages have 2000 hours on em, Brandon had one for 15k with I think 60 hours on it. I think he had a few Carbon Dragon kits with
carbon screens for 18,000 for a full ready to go package. I'm not bashing Red at all I love my camera and have decided to keep it at this point but DANG lol.
Mister Land has a good point kinda. Some are variations though. like the SXT series and the XT series and the Mini is a srunk down version of the XT plus. In any event
The red is still a great camera though guess I was just a little surprised to see the prices drop like they did. Anywho carry on haha.
Click to expand...

Be careful of that 18k carbon fiber. I unfortunately bought one and it was a bait and switch. Not all is what it seems.
 
Leroy....I fell you man. Its crazy.....I have seen the prices on some Dragon packages to date.

I look at where I started with the Scarlet going to Epic than Dragon. Now the options are insane. Its like going to Mercedes and having a 550, 550 S and 550 SR. These options have changed the game. But in response to your thread, to get a used Dragon (Carbon) at that price-point....... even used is crazy and it does affect pricing somewhat. Being that I went through several upgrades, naturally I want the Epic W upgrade......but some threads have pointed out certain trade-offs like the high frame rates for low light with the Epic W. What can you say.......the upgrade path is unique however
 
I think Dragon package(DSMC1) price will go up next year.

Once this trade in program is done by december, all the great cheap ways to get Epic-w WILL BE GONE.

NOW, PEOPLE NEED TO PAY FOR WHAT THEY SHOULD from next month

The idea of selling camera fast and cheap comes from DSMC1 owners, who sold the package to buy "Scarlet-w -> Epic-w" option.
I've seen several guys around me did that at the last minute.

Also,

Epic dragon dsmc is in an weird position between Scarlet-w ($10k) Epic Dragon($25k) Epic-w ($30k) Dragon Weapon6k-M ($35k) -- ONLY, epic dragon itself stays in DSMC1

Ironically Scarlet-w is $10k body that has DSMC2. It means, it's 150% cheaper, and may be better than dragon for someways. (Weight, better iso sensitivity, built in Wifi, etcs)

So if you were new camera buyer, would you put extra $15,000 to buy old generation camera? On the other hand, why not putting another $5k top of the Epic dragon camera price($25k) and get the epic-w, 8k camera?

It's just weird situation that dragon owners are facing...

Note: I also did scarlet-w to Epic-w. If I didn't have that good deal, I def would take some of dragon deals that I can find online now...
 
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