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RED Challenge: what's next?

A

Andreas Hellebust

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Red is a genious camera, but 2009 saw a new phenomenon almost out of nowhere: HD video from digital SLR cameras.

http://nrkbeta.no/2008/12/23/red-vs-canon-5d-mark-ii-del-2/

And here it is in [somewhat] english:
http://intertran.tranexp.com/InterTran?from=nor&to=eng&type=url&url=http://nrkbeta.no/2008/12/23/red-vs-canon-5d-mark-ii-del-2/&Submit=Translate

Watch the two lowest images. The Red is gritty and way underexposed in the dim streetlight, while the Canon 5D mk2 looks almost artificially lit (at ISO3200 I think).

Quite unspectacular due to the heavy compression and limited controls. BUT if Canon/Nikon/Pentax/etc perfects their control systems and gives us full-format, ISO12000+, compact cinema for $3000 AND not least with a usable codec in 2010 or 2011, could this be dangerous?

The question is: what will Red do next to meet this new crazy market?

You are free to flame now :)
 
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Did a VDSLR exist when red one came out? and if so what does it's low light compare too. honestly these comparisons are pointless but if you want to do it, do it right. Weather or not the Red has improved itself it came out a while ago, and it's new offering is just around the corner (m-x upgrade in R-1 to start). From the looks of it the new sensor blows most other Camera's in the price range and capabilities out of the water. And if you are really talking about shooting video and have a little bit of money then scarlet hands down will beat anything else out there (key word here is will, it's not out yet). But as everyone say's you will still have to know how to use it, just because you bought the best paints, brushes, and easel, doesn't mean you'll be painting like Da vinci in a week.

PS. depth of field isn't everything and the DOF of a 2/3" sensor isn't that bad, not like the old 1/3" hdv cam's, and the 1dmk IV is not FF
 
I'm confused whenever these things come out...why are we comparing a DSLR to a Cinema grade camera? They kind of aren't in the same league...
Isn't this a bit like comparing a FLIP HD camera to a DSLR and then to a RED?

Surely we could just wait for Scarlet and compare that to DSLR cams and then EPIC's to the likes of Sony etc. Cinema grade cameras...right?
 
If you are thinking in a way of image quality wise than RED1 especially with upcoming M-X sensor upgrade

can't be beaten at all with any of new HDSLRs (1DMK4, 7D, 5DMK2, GH1,...).

"Which brings us back to the HDSLRs – the GH1, the 7D, and the 5D Mark II all look like
they're rendering incredibly sharp, highly detailed images, but they're not. In reality, according to the resolution charts,
they're rendering images that fall somewhere around a standard-definition camera, and maybe a 720p camera.
Any additional “sharpness” you see in the image is fake – it's aliasing, it's smoke and mirrors, it's image contamination."

Aliasing by Barry Green>>>

"Let’s get something straight. The video from the Nikon D90 and the Canon 5D MkII is not of good quality.
It’s over compressed, over-processed, over-sharpened, and lacks professional control.
It skews and shears and shuts off in the middle of a take. It sucks."

ProLost>>>You Didn't Believe Me>>>

"All I’m doing is pointing out exactly how these things work.
It’s up to you to decide whether your scenarios would work within their limitations.
If you’re shooting faces, they can excel. The more that you can keep out of focus, the better they’ll do.
The more that’s in sharp focus, the more potential for negative complications from aliasing.

They are not a magic bullet. They are not Red-killers. They’re not sharper than conventional video cameras. Keep that all in perspective,
and use them for what they’re good for, and they can do astonishingly good things at an unprecedented low price point."

LINK>>>

Then I still see RED1-M-X upgraded together with its new color science FLUT as one of the best price/performance option for all types of digital cinema acquisition.

HDSLRs are small and nice but you just have to get one for yourself and then to experience many sort of its limitations (more about it is written above).

Only one sort of challenge for RED is coming from a professional side of digital acquisition market.

Just to name a few: ARRI, Sony, Vision Research Phantom HD, Silicon Images,...as Jim mentioned them in one of his latest posts...LINK>>>
 
Ursa, available light is not "unlit". An unlit shot- a shot without light, is a black screen. It's like asking a Ferrari to outperform a Yugo, but the Ferrari can't have an engine while the Yugo gets a jolt of nitrous.

Ok, to early for metaphors.

Videos and comparisons like this bug the hell out of me. Sure, it looks nice on Youtube. It actually looks pretty slick on Youtube. The Red One was not designed for Youtube delivery, it's a Cinema camera. Show me this video on a silver screen, and then we can compare properly.
 
Hehe thanks for informative/unflaming answers :)

I was just trying to stir up, and not let Red rest on it's laurels :) it's still the only company I know with the balls to turn an entire industry upside down.

About the "unlit" part: by unlit I meant not lit artificially. Sorry for the wrong-terming

About the nick: i've let them know on the "change yer nick" thread, so hopefully it will be fixed soon.

Happy 2010 :)

/thread
 
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Ursa said:
Hehe thanks for informative/unflaming answers :)
I was just trying to stir up, and not let Red rest on it's laurels :) it's still the only company I know with the balls to turn an entire industry upside down.
Click to expand...

I am honestly not trying to flame you or anybody that wants to compare video's and such. I don't find comparing video camera's or vDSLRs or Cinema cameras to be worthy of my time.

However, you saying that you're not letting RED rest on its laurels. please dude, don't say stuff like that when you are not there with them in the office working overtime day in and day out. RED is constantly awake.
 
Indeed, Ursa, they do not rest. And will not. No need for prodding from any of us, I imagine.

And really, Nocture is a very elegant and effective piece and speaks to how much good cinematic technique and a story carries the day over actual image quality -- but turn off the audio and look at it without the cinematic force of the piece -- and think about it on even a fairly large home screen -- or put it on one, and in purely cinematographic terms, we can see it more for what it is. Not all that solid.

It always comes down to the best and most appropriate tools you can manage (budgetwise and sometimes physical restraints wise) for the task at hand. And these arguments and comparisons are eternally with us. And often seem a bit abstracted from the real world of production (and its many levels of demands).
 
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