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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Cage or Big Magazine

Clarification?

Clarification?

But Wade I already have a convertible??????................

RED RAID MAGAZINE: Cont.

Here is a link to a loaded up Panavision pic on their site:

http://www.stevelantzproductions.com/TPL%20Bio%20Photos/BTS-Panavision_1_LG.jpg



The RED is just the right size for a camera body in my opinion.

There is an entire page of renderings of the camera on the RED site devoted to various configurations, about half of them show the camera with RED Cage. I've been told the reason for the cage was to make the camera larger. I thought this was strange myself.

If you look at the Panavision G Camera on top of the page note the body though heavier and wider is not all that much bigger than the RED. The size of a studio panavision set up is in: the large lenses, follow focus, matt box, lens light, asst vf,etc. and the 1000Ft Magazine.

forgive me if what I'm dreaming here is somehow technically impossible. I'm not all that computer savvy as many here are.

There are not pictures of the RED Raid probably because it doesn't exist in any finished form. Being able to record uncompressed or less compressed or just record the entire sensor for large screen shows seems to me like a nice thing. I hate wires from the camera so mounting the RED RAID on the camera similiar to the Genesis seems like a nice configuration. The look of the camera would be made very Cine. like and less wires to tangle. The RED already features the RED RAIL which would, it looks like have the strength to mount such a magazine.

Now before you say it is impossible remember the Kinetta guy way going to build his magazines out of Ipod drives. How much does this many Ipod or laptop drives weigh? every month a larger drive comes out. Maybe in six months this would be possible.

Just imagine with me a moment that it could be possible, would you want it?

It just seemed to me that the RED CAGE Didnt really serve any purpose I could understand.
 
I think the hope is that there simply won't be any point to shooting [uncompressed] RAW. Redcode RAW will hopefully be so close that it just wouldn't warrant the need too, therefore strapping something like this to the camera would be counter intuitive because the benefits would not outway the costs/problems.

If you think of the costs of storage for example, say if you used 500gb Western Digital Mybooks at about $200/£100 you can get about 5 hours footage stored on one of those, that's going to be $40/£20 per hour stored... imagine shooting entirely RAW and the costs of storage for that in comparison?

The beauty of it is though, that in 10 years time when something super duper lays 1000's of terrabytes on a fingertip sized module, Red will be able to pump out uncompressed raw data to it. It means that the RedOne shouldn't be surpassed by another digital camera for a very long time because the availability of decent recording and storage simply isn't widely available, affordable or necessary with such good compression.
 
There is a big attraction to shooting uncompressed RAW... But it's not because it's uncompressed. It's because that's the only way to shoot over 30fps for 4K and over 120fps for 2K. Or just to shoot the full 4.5K sensor size.

A big reason these modes are only available via uncompressed RAW (as I understand it) is because the onboard processors can't handle the load to compress higher framerate modes to REDCODE RAW. We can however record 1080p60 using the full 35mm 4K sensor size to REDCODE RGB on camera. I have a feeling a lot of people (myself included) will be doing that a lot of the time.
 
I thought you could shoot RedCode RAW to an offboard recording source. The problem being that you can't record the 110MBps (Guestimate 4 x 27.5MBps) needed for 120fps Redcode RAW using RedFlash or RedDrive onboard. This is a different beast to shooting Uncompressed isn't it? Or am I mistaken?
 
PaulClements said:
I thought you could shoot RedCode RAW to an offboard recording source. The problem being that you can't record the 110MBps (Guestimate 4 x 27.5MBps) needed for 120fps Redcode RAW using RedFlash or RedDrive onboard. This is a different beast to shooting Uncompressed isn't it? Or am I mistaken?
Click to expand...

The limitation is the internal REDCODE compression processor: it just can't handle and compress more than 4K@30p. Accordingly, you cannot record 120fps REDCODE RAW to the RED RAID because the RED RAID does not have a compression processor [to our knowledge].

Capturing 110MB/s is not difficult. Compressing almost 1GB/s into something manageable is.
 
tj williams said:
I've been told the reason for the cage was to make the camera larger. I thought this was strange myself.
Click to expand...

Do you really think they would spend all that time designing the Red Cage in order to make it larger?

The Red Cage has tons of uses, search back through the beginning talks about the Red Cage on DVX user.
 
I wondered if others here would prefer:
A. The RED cage
B. The big RED magazine

True it would be cool to have a "Panavision feel" on set for traditional filmming. I think that the Red Cage will let a DP/Red operator build or minimize to their heart's content - even slapping on a big "mag" if it is more familiar.

That's the beauty I think of the system...it's a la carte.
 
Something tells me that there hasn't been a whole lot of Panavision emulation thus far in the RED design process... and I don't expect it to start now. :laugh:
 
Andrew paul put it back in his post and I put another one up that works.

Brooke: Maybe Panavision is not the best example of a large camera used successfully for many years in film making. I gotta confess I do like the digital mag on the Panavision Genesis, better than the cage? so here is a link to a picture, you tell me?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f3/Pvgenesis.jpg/180px-Pvgenesis.jpg




I guess a one piece camera without a buncha cable running across the room with a Giant RAid on the back instead of the smaller (hand held, steadicam,crane) configuration for dolly work in dialog sequences is appealingto me.
 
Well one is possible [HD data rate] and one is not [4.5K RAW data rate]. That's why you should use the RED DRIVE and shoot REDCODE RAW onboard... because the benefits of shooting uncompressed RAW do not outweigh the limitations of being tethered to a large RAID. What you want to happen is possible, you just don't need huge, unwieldy accessories like you do on the Genesis.

As for comparing the Genesis's recording system to the RED's support system... I don't see the point. One serves to store data... the other serves to allow for the mounting of accessories.
 
Another thing to consider about an onboard Raid HDD brick would be its safety in a hand-held configuration.

I don't think wer'e at the point in drive shock protection to be able to run a raid array while chasing after a screaming blonde in a horror scene or the like.

Not to mention, I'm a big fan of keeping my camera configuration as light and maneuverable as possible.
 
I gotta confess I do like the digital mag on the Panavision Genesis, better than the cage? so here is a link to a picture, you tell me?
Click to expand...

I have used the genesis before and the "digital mag" is actually just a slightly changed sony hd deck. It is a little loud and only does HD resolution. I see absoulutely no need to make the red heavier or larger just for appearence sake. Keep the camera as small and light as possible with the most amount of resolution. Which seems to be what they have done. As far as the possibility of red uncompressed who can handle that in post anyways? I am more then happy to wait a few years for that option as there is no use for it until a cost friendly post solution is available.

Brook Willard Something tells me that there hasn't been a whole lot of Panavision emulation thus far in the RED design process... and I don't expect it to start now. :laugh:
Click to expand...

Brook,
I am not quite sure if you are joking because you feel that red has taken ideas from panavision or not. I sure hope red is looking and stealing bits off of panavision and arri cameras. There is a reason panavision is the number 1 camera company, a lot of there designs and accesories work well and kick ass. Why not look at your competition take what good things they have and use them or make them better. It would be a huge mistake for red not to assess what is working and what isn't on the top industry cameras out. If they do not there will be a bunch of lacking areas with the camera. Sure no camera (ARRI, panavision) is perfect but these companys have had the advantage of building many generations of cameras and each one tends to get better. I am pretty sure this is something Jim is very clear of and will use to his advantage.
 
I was mostly referring to their ungodly prices, rental-only strategy and elitism. Panavision isn't exactly "bringing it to the masses". Emulating Panavision isn't a good thing... but I agree that analyzing their products and improving upon them is good. To me it's almost a given.
 
Cool, That makes a lot more sense to me Brook. I was pretty sure I was misunderstanding you and now see that was the case and totally agree with you.
 
There are a couple of interesting points here;
Size - the great thing about Red is that you can do it big or small. Small for getting into places other cameras won't go and big in those film situations that require big. I remember reading that Kiefer Sutherland finds it hard to act well to a small camera (Talking about HDV then I think) - in 24 I can understand this as the camera is often a 'person'. Sometimes you want presence.
Frame rates - we have to remember that this is the beginning of the revolution. Red is breaking new ground. Currently if you want high frame rates it's going to be hard to beat film (Think about those ultra high speed cameras in crash testing etc.). But these are early days and the red is designed modular. As holographic storage comes along, then the recording rates won't be a problem. I think we expect a lot considering digital technology isn't that old yet (60 years?) compared to film.

I think combining film and digital is going to be an industry in itself for a while as one beats the other in different situations.
 
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