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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED, are you listening? The ROCKET is the bottleneck....

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I also really think the lack of a mobile RR or a prores module costs me (and alot of others) a lot of missed epic jobs. I never finish in 5k or 4k, so always have to down convert, render, have long copy times because the files sizes are huge, explain people how RCX works. If i could just deliver nice 1920x1080 prores files at the end of a shooting day ALOT of my clients would be happier than giving them 5k r3d files... Ideal it would be with a module, so i can hand it over directly after wrapping. But if i could have thunderbolt (thunderbolt slows down the maximum output of a RR, but why not make a cheaper thunderbolt RR card, that has the capacity of about the data rate of what thunderbolt is capable of?) RR card, and do it in 1 or 2 hours, would also be really helpful.

I hope RED really understands that with nearly all digital shooting nowadays, workflow becomes a really important factor in deciding which camera to choose for producers. And it's most of the time not a choice for the best camera perse, but a choice for the best camera + the simplicity of the workflow, and if the camera is of lesser quality but the workflow way easier, most of the time that camera will be chosen. Red is doing good in the really high end feature world, but could easily compete with something like a c300 if they offered a scaled down, cheaper and more simple workflow, really feels like a missed opportunity not to create that...
 
Max, have you considered a third party module such as from Sound Devices or Convergent Designs. Red has mentioned these in the past as a solution for fast, easy, ProRes files?
 
sergio arguello said:
what is confusing is that all this dialogue and nobody from RED is chiming in....zzzzzz I bought a red rocket years ago and in fact owned 5 from that one purchase. Something has to be done asap. Come on guys this is getting rather obvious. We (loyal customers)
deserve this to be addressed in a logical fashion. Does that make sense? too expensive, too unreliable and upgrades unpredictably brick them.
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I chimed in on page 1?
 
jake blackstone said:
Everything I say is my personal opinion.Obviously, I do not speak for the post community. Although, I'd like to hear from some post professionals, that had some kind of interaction with Red, beside, obviously, you Michael. We know you interact with Red:-) I do not see anything in my statement that is disrespectful and I'm not sure what I should be careful about. if you disagree with any statements made, you're free to post your position on the subject.
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There's plenty of post houses we've had contact with and continue to have contact with. Like Michael said, don't speak for others, please.
 
This thread got derailed somewhat. To recap, we are listening and we understand what everybody wants. We are working day and night to get the best tools to you. Are we there yet? No. But we are willing to listen and work with everybody to keep making RED the best system out there.

If there are any post facilities or anyone else who wants to have a discussion with us on post you are more than welcome to email me directly (rob at red dot com)

For people who need to go to ProRes or DNxHD today I suggest you go and check out the various external recorders on the market. This way you get a nice 5K negative to keep for the future and instant files you can edit with.

2012 should be an interesting year for RED post options... ;)
 
Rob Lohman said:
There's plenty of post houses we've had contact with and continue to have contact with. Like Michael said, don't speak for others, please.
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Rob.
If you had regular contacts with other post houses, we wouldn't have this discussion:-)
When was the last time any other post house, other than LI or Plaster City did any demo reel work for Red?
"Tattoo" short doesn't count too, as it was done by FilmLight and not by the post house.
I have yet to see any kind of get together for strictly post people hosted by Red.
Please don't speak for me...
 
Rob Lohman said:
This thread got derailed somewhat. To recap, we are listening and we understand what everybody wants. We are working day and night to get the best tools to you. Are we there yet? No. But we are willing to listen and work with everybody to keep making RED the best system out there.

If there are any post facilities or anyone else who wants to have a discussion with us on post you are more than welcome to email me directly (rob at red dot com)

For people who need to go to ProRes or DNxHD today I suggest you go and check out the various external recorders on the market. This way you get a nice 5K negative to keep for the future and instant files you can edit with.

2012 should be an interesting year for RED post options... ;)
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Does this mean

a) Rocket2 @ 1k$
b) Prores/DNxHD module

BASIC:

10 If yes to both = good
 
Any way to address the issue of the soldering on the cards not holding particularly well when running in/ at higher temperatures in the field for extended periods of time?
 
Rob Lohman said:
For people who need to go to ProRes or DNxHD today I suggest you go and check out the various external recorders on the market. This way you get a nice 5K negative to keep for the future and instant files you can edit with.
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Yes, but at 10 bit and not Log. Not the same thing by a long shot...
People are asking for files to not just edit, but also to finish with.
 
Not buying a rocket is a bit like saying "I want to shoot on film but I do not want run the film trough the lab since the costs are to high..."

It's quite simple, you could buy an Alexa (the cost are about the same as 2 epics) and then also buy one or 2 codec recorders (this will also cost you about the same as two epics) then you can give your clients raw files that way... but guess what you still need to render to get your process files and those alexa files are not to play with they demand far more computing power than ant r3d file.

So you need to put the rocket in perspective... It cost far less than the lab cost for one single little project... And it should not be compared to shooting Proress or H246 or such. If you get the card, render your clients file without question and make sure they get what they need for their offline then they will not ask for an alexa and they will not complain on the contrary they will come back for more...
 
Björn Benckert said:
Not buying a rocket is a bit like saying "I want to shoot on film but I do not want run the film trough the lab since the costs are to high..."

It's quite simple, you could buy an Alexa (the cost are about the same as 2 epics) and then also buy one or 2 codec recorders (this will also cost you about the same as two epics) then you can give your clients raw files that way... but guess what you still need to render to get your process files and those alexa files are not to play with they demand far more computing power than ant r3d file.

So you need to put the rocket in perspective... It cost far less than the lab cost for one single little project... And it should not be compared to shooting Proress or H246 or such. If you get the card, render your clients file without question and make sure they get what they need for their offline then they will not ask for an alexa and they will not complain on the contrary they will come back for more...
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not everyone is an owner/operator - self contained unit. in those cases, absolutely get 5 red rockets.
BUT if you are a smallish post facility and are getting all kinds of projects and formats delivered to you, RED is the only format I can think of off the top of my head that you have to buy a dedicated piece of hardware to deal with efficiently.
right?
 
Can optimization and newer chipsets make the Rocket pointless?

Can optimization and newer chipsets make the Rocket pointless?

Sooo, RED keeps giving us better images and the larger data loads they create.

Workstation vendors, Mac or PC, keep putting in faster CPUs, GPUs, bus standards, etc to meet the ever escalating demands of many users (not just RedUsers ;-)

Red Rocket was a way to close the gap so real time operations with R3Ds were possible. They have been a mixed success, survey the pertinent threads for context if you like.

I wouldn't want to speak for RED, but it seems like the newer chipsets hitting the market might make an accelerator card unnecessary within a year (at least for 4K) so why pour R&D into yet another stop gap solution?

Hopefully the new RED/HP/Adobe Z820 program is a beachhead for the development of the next generation of hardware for digital cinema applications that cleverly utilizes the horsepower coming down the pipe - Ivy Bridge, Kepler, etc. I honestly do not believe that RED is that interested in being in the PCIe accelerator card business, they just recognized a need and stepped up with the best solution they could deliver in a reasonable time frame and priced it as aggressively as their cost structure allowed.

I urge RED to pursue strategies similar to the Adobe/nVidia co-development of MPE on CUDA. Any workstation purchase that improves turnaround times on projects regardless of camera media type is a much easier purchase decision. What if there was no significant difference in post time/cost between the popular camera systems? Just wondering...

Cheers - #19

NOTE: concurrent thread on this topic that Jarred started covers much of the same territory, geek heaven!
 
Paul Provost said:
not everyone is an owner/operator - self contained unit. in those cases, absolutely get 5 red rockets.
BUT if you are a smallish post facility and are getting all kinds of projects and formats delivered to you, RED is the only format I can think of off the top of my head that you have to buy a dedicated piece of hardware to deal with efficiently.
right?
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Well, in defense of just moving the technical bar....why can't apple have just kept my G3 and made it fool proof for any HD files i work with now..? While this discussion has it's merrits and there are those not happy with having to buy a RR card to work with R3d's.....it's a bit like my point--why won't my G3 move big .move files around.....I think it's been well documented you don't need a RR card. But i hear nobody complaining why they have to upgrade their hardware to work with fast moving technology.....Jake mentioned he is or wants to buy an OLED monitor, but why isn't his current one upgradable? I think you are making a mountain of a mole hill. Ok, you don't want to get 1/2 or real time playback, then don't buy a rr card, but im sure you are soon or did upgrade your Edit Hardware. I think it's quite enough that we can say why we want a better rr card or solution...but seems like many are already developing like the new HP workstation and others. as far as i'm concerned i was grateful to have the RR card early on to work with R3d files...but many colleagues of mine did the same thing and just rendered files overnight...I don't get your frustation Jake.....don't buy one...do it how you've done it. Or do buy one and get better/faster performance. Red does not require you to buy one.....i'm pretty content that the bar has been pushed this far...

NOW, Version 2 please....cheaper, smaller, more robust & powerful to move 6k + files at full rez on two streams of video for 3d work--or something like that..... and those throwing up Alexa vs. R3d.....great. stay in that workflow....sounds like it is fantastic. I can't afford to work there because of initial break in costs....so your argument is poop!
 
jake blackstone said:
Rob.
If you had regular contacts with other post houses, we wouldn't have this discussion:-)
When was the last time any other post house, other than LI or Plaster City did any demo reel work for Red?
"Tattoo" short doesn't count too, as it was done by FilmLight and not by the post house.
I have yet to see any kind of get together for strictly post people hosted by Red.
Please don't speak for me...
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Like I said, we're not there yet. What does who does our reel have to do with anything? That doesn't mean we don't talk to anybody.

I never spoke for you. I told you that we do speak to other post houses. That's all I said.

Thanks for suggesting a get together, that's a great suggestion!
 
Martin Whittier said:
Max, have you considered a third party module such as from Sound Devices or Convergent Designs. Red has mentioned these in the past as a solution for fast, easy, ProRes files?
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yep, but external cables for power, hd sdi, extra item hanging on the camera, no slow motion etc etc. I'm using a pix 240 now actually, and it's working quite ok, but it makes the camera bigger, bulky and a bit of a cable mess, so a small click on module size of the module adapter where i just stick in a CF card would be much much nicer...
 
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