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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED, are you listening? The ROCKET is the bottleneck....

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Will Keir said:
Jake no one is attacking you, just cracking a joke for your expense. You have a very solid point, the cost is too much.

Do you ever CC ARRI Alexis footage? If so, can you CC in full Rez here, what is the workflow like?
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Frankly, while doing a lot of remote grading around the world, in over a year I had only ONE Red job. Every other job is Alexa. I wonder why?
 
What's the Alexa workflow like?

jake blackstone said:
Frankly, while doing a lot of remote grading around the world, in over the year I had only ONE Red job. Every other job is Alexa. I wonder why?
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jake blackstone said:
Do you mean my signature stating my profession is not big enough?:laugh:
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As a colorist, wouldn't you rather work with RAW than baked-in color? And if so, wouldn't that justify the extra expense?
Just curious to hear your opinion....


BTW, I was one of the few lucky ones and snatched a battle tested Rocket while it was available.
 
Will Keir said:
I care, how do you have your system setup?
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The system is called Nucoda FilmMaster. Incidentally, latest version of Baselight (4.3) can do that as well now. If BM finally decides to fix caching in Resolve, then this may be possible too...
Better yet, Red should allow GPU debayer/decompression in SDK. Right now it is strictly verboten!
 
Milan Spasic said:
As a colorist, wouldn't you rather work with RAW than baked-in color? And if so, wouldn't that justify the extra expense?


BTW, I was one of the few lucky ones and snatched a battle tested Rocket while it was available.
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Red keeps perpetuating the myth of RAW grading. RAW grading is impossible. Grading can only be done on debayered RGB image.
When you grade in Resolve, it does debayer/decompression on the fly and actual grading is done on DPX file.
Every grading system does that. The only difference is the choice of intermediate codec.
 
I think a cheaper solution could be a rocket module...Something that docks the camera to the computer and uses the cameras internal debayer/ downscaling.

Could be something for all of the do not want to buy rocket people.

I would like the rocket in my linux flame... when will that happen ? :)
 
Björn Benckert said:
I think a cheaper solution could be a rocket module...Something that docks the camera to the computer and uses the cameras internal debayer/ downscaling.

Could be something for all of the do not want to buy rocket people.
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And how would that help the post people?
 
jake blackstone said:
Red keeps perpetuating the myth of RAW grading. RAW grading is impossible. Grading can only be done on debayered RGB image.
When you grade in Resolve, it does debayer/decompression on the fly and actual grading is done on DPX file.
Every grading system does that. The only difference is the choice of intermediate codec.
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I think you're missing the point completely... Whether you're working on the RAW data or a debayered version is inconsequential (merely an implementation detail). The point is that the camera doesn't do white balance, ISO, gamma correction, curves etc. onboard, and then compress it all baked in to an RGB codec. You have the flexibility to extract more information by doing that processing yourself.
 
It wouldn't. All things considered the rocket is a small expense for those working with Red footage on a regular basis. It's less than 1/5 the price difference between an Epic and an Alexa camera package. If you're shooting with a Scarlet you should budget the time to edit with prores proxies and conform. There's nothing special about the Alexa workflow, it's just a codec people seem familiar with (Prores) but every show I've been a part of still transcodes the 444 Log-c for editorial. So the process is no faster, cheaper or more efficient than Red.
Also the resolution and quality are significanlty lower with Alexa but for most broadcast TV and web delivery this is irrelevent.
 
Stephen Gentle said:
I think you're missing the point completely... Whether you're working on the RAW data or a debayered version is inconsequential (merely an implementation detail). The point is that the camera doesn't do white balance, ISO, gamma correction, curves etc. onboard, and then compress it all baked in to an RGB codec. You have the flexibility to extract more information by doing that processing yourself.
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I have no idea what you just said. Which camera are you talking about?
 
Evin Grant said:
IThere's nothing special about the Alexa workflow, it's just a codec people seem familiar with (Prores) but every show I've been a part of still transcodes the 444 Log-c for editorial. So the process is no faster, cheaper or more efficient than Red.
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Editors are very change averse. They are used to edit with dailies quality material. That was the norm even, when film was used for episodic TV. I the past I had done a ton of film dailies. But the fact of the matter, now you're talking mostly Hollywood shows. Let's talk about places like India. They do not do Alexa dailies. Why? Because it is not necessary and cost money. Any Mac with FW800 can edit Alexa Prores without any transcoding. With Red you MUST transcode, unless you use Premiere. Well, no pro editor would get caught dead using PPro to edit a feature. I get Alexa files for remote grading sent to me over the net. It's very easy to do. Not with Red. You need to fire up RedCineX for cutting down R3Ds. And don't even get me started how often I have to explain to my clients how to do that. I never have to do that with Alexa users. So, in short, I strongly disagree, that Alexa process is "no faster, cheaper or more efficient than Red"
As far as cost goes, frankly, I have better plan how to use the $5K. I'm going to buy the Sony OLED monitor. I'll get much better return on my investment and I can use it with any camera.
 
Stephen Gentle said:
I think you're missing the point completely... Whether you're working on the RAW data or a debayered version is inconsequential (merely an implementation detail). The point is that the camera doesn't do white balance, ISO, gamma correction, curves etc. onboard, and then compress it all baked in to an RGB codec. You have the flexibility to extract more information by doing that processing yourself.
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Stepehen, true but it's not clear that you can always get an >=result by offloading those processes to post.
 
jake blackstone said:
Editors are very change averse. They are used to edit with dailies quality material. That was the norm even, when film was used for episodic TV. I the past I had done a ton of film dailies. But the fact of the matter, now you're talking mostly Hollywood shows. Let's talk about places like India. They do not do Alexa dailies. Why? Because it is not necessary and cost money. Any Mac with FW800 can edit Alexa Prores without any transcoding. With Red you MUST transcode, unless you use Premiere. Well, no pro editor would get caught dead using PPro to edit a feature. I get Alexa files for remote grading sent to me over the net. It's very easy to do. Not with Red. You need to fire up RedCineX for cutting down R3Ds. And don't even get me started how often I have to explain to my clients how to do that. I never have to do that with Alexa users. So, in short, I strongly disagree, that Alexa process is "no faster, cheaper or more efficient than Red"
As far as cost goes, frankly, I have better plan how to use the $5K. I'm going to buy the Sony OLED monitor. I'll get much better return on my investment and I can use it with any camera.
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I'll sell you my OLED... They are not really that good. Move your head to the side of center and the images goes Green !!. Good backs... but man they fall off quick. but that's about that.
My 27mac LED is better to grade with. The OLED we have running and we look at it from time to time, but never have a client look at it from more that 10 degrees of to the side... YUK!

Regarding your ALEXA work flow and grading over RED work flow and grading.... your completely correct.
I'm a RED nutter.. love it, I have a awesome fast moving work flow in house. But to be honest... if I could get kelvin perfect , REDLOGFILM / 4k PRORES files straight out of the camera! I would take it in an instant !...

Till then... I'm transcoding like everyone else.
 
jake blackstone said:
Alexa shoots RAW, if that's what he's implying...
Is RAW better, than debayered/gamma encoded compressed image? Yes. Is it better in every PRACTICAL situation? No...
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Well, that is all I wanted to hear. To me, the advantage of shooting RAW completely justifies the expense of Red Rocket.
Sure, if workflow speed is of such essence, getting ProRes or similar codec straight out of the camera is more practical but if you want to get the most out of your footage and if you are staying busy doing it, the $5k investment is completely worth it.
 
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