Red and Lucasfilm?

[Steve Gibby]

Spielberg has worked with the same editor, Michael Kahn, for all of his films. Kahn is still using KEM flatbeds and Moviolas by choice. There is no way that Spielberg will change his process in the near future.

If he's comfortable with the film workflow, and doesn't want to change, he's obviously at the point in his career where he can make that choice to stick with film.

As a sidelight, a friend of mine, who I served on a film festival Board with, is an Oscar winning editor who has traditionally edited film on a flatbed. His name is Neil Travis. He received an Oscar for his editing of "Dances With Wolves". He has also edited a long list of films we've all probably seen, among them "Sum of All Fears", "Clear and Present Danger", "Terminator 3", and many more. I had breakfast with Neil and Morgan Freeman at Neil's ranch recently. Neil and me have had some film vs. digital discussions, as you might imagine. We both taught seminars at a recent film festival, mine on digital acquisition, and his on editing. His approach to the move to digital? He has brought on a partner editor who is younger, and is an ace at digital editing. When they edit projects they team edit. Neil's expertise in film editing dovetails nicely with his partner’s expertise in digital editing. Good editing decisions are still good editing decisions, whether it's being done on a film flatbed or on an Avid, FCP, or some other NLE.

I've edited my entire career and I've learned that I prefer a digital workflow. To each their own...

 

[Jeremy Hughes]

Lucas will be saying that he wants to shoot it with the RED ONE, and Spielburg will be saying, "I don't know, sure 4K matches 35mm... But I wanted to shoot on IMAX. That would take at least 8K. It's just not quite there yet."

 

[Emanuel A.]

So Indy 4 starts shooting in June. Obviously, Lucas will be pushing for HD, while Spielberg will want to stick with 35mm. Spielberg's best argument against HD is that the resolution and quality are "not there yet."

I have no idea what Spielberg thinks on that but I know there are a lot of features already there and weren't shot with a film camera.

 

[Roberto B]

He said the smell of working in film, physically editing on a Moviola, was the same that Cecil B DeMille, Orson Welles et al had smelled when crafting masterpieces, was the "smell of our art" and that he'd likely be the last using it, but he wasn't going to change. He said Amblin would be at the forefront of new technology, but that he personally would never make the switch.

yeah.. it should be because of that, welles shot all the projects he had..

 

[PaulClements]

And art can't be created in digital cinema? With all due respects to Spielberg, I now prefer doing my art digitally. I also prefer the smell of money - being generated and staying in my bank account as net profit.

He wasn't being anti-digital. It was more his love of film and what it means to him, the history it has and the emotions it provokes for him when using it. I don't think he was implying digital can't be used for art, just the opposite infact. It was more like he was saying I'm a bit of a stickler for tradition even though I probably ought not to be as technology gets better and better.

Whilst I agree earning lots of money is great, at the end of the day I'd rather make one amazing movie and be poor till I die than be rich with nothing to show for it. I suppose the beauty of the Red One is it will hopefully give many more the opportunity to make that great movie without the restrictions of huge budgets.

 

[Steve Gibby]

I definitely respect tradition, and I take great pride in my artwork. That said, my concept is that technology now enables me to create award-winning and high revenue generating productions, on cost-effective budgets. To me, that's the best of both worlds - quality artwork that generates solid revenue and increased net profits.

 

[Júlio Taubkin]

We shouldn't be so hard on spielberg. He says he "prefers" working with 35mm film, just because of what it means to him. I'm sure if I had the money, I wouoldn't find shooting 35mm so bad either. He likes so much, that he "edits" his films on moviolas (But not exactly, he just prints a cut on film, and checks it on the moviola for final adjustments... Afterall, he practically invented CGI on feature films, it would be almost impossible for him to actually EDIT on moviolas or KEMs).

Indiana Jones is a "vintage" remake. It`ll will probably be done just the same way they did the others, in 35mm. We will see how the cinematographer managed to mimic the original 1980s negative look through a very complicated DI process, and how everything actually look like it was shot 20 years ago.

Then we will look at ourselves and wonder why they didn`t shoot this 20 years ago...

 

[PaulClements]

I definitely respect tradition, and I take great pride in my artwork. That said, my concept is that technology now enables me to create award-winning and high revenue generating productions, on cost-effective budgets. To me, that's the best of both worlds - quality artwork that generates solid revenue and increased net profits.

Couldn't agree more Steve, I was merely pointing out that the piece Stephen quoted before about "the smell of our art" wasn't said in a pompous way or strictly negative to digital (although it comes across that way when written in a digital cinema camera forum ). I'm fairly sure that if Spielberg was starting out today and went to buy his first camera it'd be digital - most likely a RedOne!

 

[Steve Gibby]

Very good point Paul...there is often somewhat of an age divide in someone's approach to their tools. In general, traditionalists tend to be older and comfortable with their workflows and tools. That's not always the case though. I'm 58 years old, started as a still film photographer in 1969, and started into film and video production in the late '70's, and yet I've stayed right on top of each evolving technology through the years, testing and adopting each one. It doesn't mean that I don't respect previous technologies. In fact, my experience using film is invaluable in my approach to digital cinema and EFP work, and I still occasionally shoot some film.

Having been in the motion media production business for some time now, I get the chance to mentor a lot of people just beginning their careers in this business. I always counsel them to do what they love and if they do it well enough and long enough, finances will take care of themselves. I tell them if they have passion, tenacity, and talent they have a good chance of succeeding. The final element is affordable, flexible technology. I feel that RED One could help a lot of them to reach their dreams...

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hmmm.... Needs sauce. No way am I going to choke that down dry. The rusty utensils are an excellent touch.

 

[kraemer]

More importantly, when are film makers going to go 30fps or 60fps? Its really irritating to watch a film when the camera pans and suddenly everything is unreadable and blurry....

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

More importantly, when are film makers going to go 30fps or 60fps? Its really irritating to watch a film when the camera pans and suddenly everything is unreadable and blurry....

The opportunity for filmmakers to do this will come with digital projection systems. And even then, it will be a slow process of conversion and may not ever really happen. 24fps has a look of its own that lends itself to the art that is filmmaking. Shooting 30fps (and even more so 60i/60p) gives a very "video" look. Everything is smoother and there's so much more visual information there, but it lacks that somewhat magical look 24p has.

In the end, as cineplexes are converted into the digital realm, I think we'll see more of it. There will be times when 30p or 60p would make sense for a feature to get the right look and feel. I think documentaries, wildlife/nature/outdoor could benefit from 60p. War features could also benefit from the added realizm of 60p, but at the same time, this may be a double-edged blade on something of an intense nature.

 

[kraemer]

I don't agree with this. Given the right lighting and processing, a typical scene with two "talking heads" will look about the same. The higher frame rate makes the difference when the camera is moving or objects are moving quickly across the screen. The difference is that fast motion will no longer look ridiculously blurry, and special effects teams wont have to spend ungodly amounts of time making their effects look like blurry 24fps film.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Trust me, Lucas and Spielberg will personally appear on this forum 2nite...

A stretch, but it wouldn't surprise me if they eventually visit REDUser anonymously to see what all this RED rukus is about.

Food for thought:

Steve Spielberg is 59 years old and a billionaire
George Lucas is 61 years old and a billionaire
Jim Jannard is 56 years old and a billionaire

Jim made his fortune in the optics business. Steven and George made their fortunes using optics to create movies. If Spielberg and Lucas are aware of RED, they are also aware of the fact that RED was founded by a very successful businessman and a fellow billionaire. Jim has not only put his money where his passion is, and has shared his passion with us in the form of RED One, but he also takes the time to personally visit this forum daily and post with us. Though it would be far fetched to expect Spielberg or Lucas to post here, I'm sure they've heard of Jim Jannard, and I suspect they're probably keeping tabs on the development of RED One.

The cool thing about Jim Jannard is that he is accessible and down to earth. He hangs out in jeans and is a "real" person. If he passed you on the street you'd never suspect his wealth and accomplishments - no airs or posturing, just a real person who has a deep passion for optics and digital cinema.

 

[scriptor]

hello (sorry for the bad english, feel free to said me you dont understand what i write)
i think shooting in 35mm or 4k is a detail for a 100M$ production but it would be interresting to know lucas and spielberg wishes
i read that lucas dream about a 100% digital workflow because he want to post-process (correcting color, compositing etc) directly on the set what will be a warmy closed room
if spielberg prefer much more the 35mm, he cannot ignore the 4k format and the "100% digital workflow" because its the futur of his buisness, then i think spielberg's relation test this format for him and make report and think about way to work with because soon only a few director will still shoot in 35mm only for nostalgic purpose
i think both know well the red camera, each have probably preorder one, maybe they have contact the red team but due to buisness issue this kind of information must be secret
++

 

[Ace]

Hmmm.... Needs sauce. No way am I going to choke that down dry. The rusty utensils are an excellent touch.

Heh. Breakfast of champions!

Heres another variation with a play on words..

 

[P Andersson]

when you come to a 4K in the road, pick it up

 

[Mardi_Gras]

Countdown to the Lucas and Spielberg showdown on reduser.net...

 

[Mardi_Gras]

hello (sorry for the bad english, feel free to said me you dont understand what i write)
i think shooting in 35mm or 4k is a detail for a 100M$ production but it would be interresting to know lucas and spielberg wishes
i read that lucas dream about a 100% digital workflow because he want to post-process (correcting color, compositing etc) directly on the set what will be a warmy closed room
if spielberg prefer much more the 35mm, he cannot ignore the 4k format and the "100% digital workflow" because its the futur of his buisness, then i think spielberg's relation test this format for him and make report and think about way to work with because soon only a few director will still shoot in 35mm only for nostalgic purpose
i think both know well the red camera, each have probably preorder one, maybe they have contact the red team but due to buisness issue this kind of information must be secret
++

Me thinks you fronting with this piece. Me thinking you very good english man. Wha the dealio?

 

[Isaac Brody]

I think we should take bets on what they shoot with on Indy 4. I'm betting film. Come on people, make me a billionaire.