RED and Arri...

[Jannard]

Having seen the Alexa prototypes at IBC last year, it is my impression that the Arri cameras should be really good. At ISO 800 they looked comparable to the Mysterium-X sensors. It would be a great thing to do a direct comparison of the two cameras so the industry has a clear idea of what the best options are out there going forward. My bet is that the Alexa lineup and EPIC cameras will be the two left standing for the near future.

I'm sure that Michael Bravin will help put this kind of test together. Any test of the two should be supervised by both companies along with the ASC camera committee? Maybe we could even get Sony to bring along an F35? We would be happy to host a test at the new RED Studios Hollywood.

How does that sound?

Jim

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Jim,

totally agree.

A great idea.

 

[Michael McLaughlin]

Gauntlet thrown

Gauntlet thrown

In a very nice gentlemanly fashion.

 

[Julio Quintana]

David vs. Goliath. Only David has spent the last two years developing a fully automatic sling shot...

 

[Francis Kenny]

It is a great idea Sanjin. We can make that happen from our part of a test? I will present your idea before the ASC Board and see what they say. I would not assign any particular ASC committee to supervise the test. Perhaps Academy Award winners? I agree that it would have to be supervised by both parties. From soup to nuts. Let's do it. Francis Kenny, ASC

 

[IAN SUN]

You have turned the industry on it's head.
Innovation is coming fast and furiously from the established players, this is all thanks to your vision and determination.
The others may be pulling aces out of their sleeves, but I'll still place my bet on RED.

 

[Tom Lowe]

I like your confidence, Jim.

Bravin will probably have to meditate on this for a few days at his cloud-ringed mountain retreat high above Hawaii.... :wink:

 

[Joseph Hutson]

Sounds good to me. I still like RED's business model much more...regardless of how the image looks.

(of course, thankfully the business model isn't the only thing RED is getting right)

 

[Pawel Achtel]

How does that sound?

Sounds great, but I doubt Michael will agree to that after you scared all the competition away with those 4000 ISO samples :emote_22_yikes:

But, as you said, Arri will work it out. They will deliver quality product that will be sought after by DPs, no doubt about that. They have the expertise and they are passionate about their products too.

BTW, what glass would you propose for the test? RPPs or MPs? :devil:

 

[Uli Plank]

I could offer an independent test at "Hands on HD" in Hanover, Germany ( www.handsonhd.de ), but this would be autumn then. We had all three around for the last two years, and there are lots of professional camerafolks teaching there, probably the most famous one was Philip Ros, but once we had Michael Ballhaus there too.

BTW, when we had ARRI D21 (beta) and RED (build 15, if I remember well) next to each other on a night shot they were pretty close and left in the dust by F35…

I've seen the ARRI prototype footage on last years event and it already performed a tad better than Sony this time. Plus without all the blooming around highlights, of course.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Also RED should finally build OVF (Optical View Finder) even if Jim didn't get any order call for it till today.

It's just because the professionals want to see it first and then if like it they will place their orders (for sure mostly rentals,...).

BTW, you can see Alexa at Friday evening January 29th 7:30PM on the campus of California State
University Northridge, (CSUN) at even "Everything ARRI" -- Check out Alexa and more..."

"The Digital Cinema Society will be treated to an exclusive preview of the
latest ARRI technology including next generation ARRI digital cameras
codenamed Alexa, their innovative post-production software, Relativity,..."

LINK>>>

 

[Jannard]

Also RED should finally build OVF (Optical View Finder) even if Jim didn't get any order call for it till today.

It's just because the professionals want to see it first and then if like it they will place their orders (for sure mostly rentals,...).

So Sanjin... I can count you in with an officially placed order? Thanks... that makes 24 to go. Please send us $20,000 to confirm.

Jim

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Also RED should finally build OVF (Optical View Finder) even if Jim didn't get any order call for it till today...

At ISO 4000 you won't see a damn thing in an optical view finder. Good digital monitoring blows any optical view finder from the water. Especially with F@#$ LUT, where you can apply your profile to RAW and WYSIWYG. This is what you need. How do you do that with optical VF? Useless as tits on a wombat...:biggrin5:

 

[Ryan S]

This is a comparison I'd like to see, especially with an F35. If anything, I think it would solidify in the minds of even more people that Red is on the same level as the Old Boys, and is growing like a weed.

Would it be fair to ask Panavision to show up with a Genesis? That beast is getting a little long in the tooth...

 

[Brian D. Goff]

At ISO 4000 you won't see a damn thing in an optical view finder. Good digital monitoring blows any optical view finder from the water. Especially with F@#$ LUT, where you can apply your profile to RAW and WYSIWYG. This is what you need. How do you do that with optical VF? Useless as tits on a boar hog...:biggrin5:

music to my ears - let go, analog is dead, under the ground, going to nirvana. EVF's are getting better from version to version, we are at the beginning of the possibilities of EVFs. optical viewfinders can not really be improved anymore and they stand in the way of making smaller cameras and faster lens (get a lens as close to the sensor as possible, and the sensor gets more light.

Optical View finder RIP

PS: I grew up with EVFs, I know no better

 

[Jannard]

This is a comparison I'd like to see, especially with an F35. If anything, I think it would solidify in the minds of even more people that Red is on the same level as the Old Boys, and is growing like a weed.

Would it be fair to ask Panavision to show up with a Genesis? That beast is getting a little long in the tooth...

We would love to have Panavision join the tests...

Jim

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

So Sanjin... I can count you in with an officially placed order? Thanks... that makes 24 to go. Please send us $20,000 to confirm.

Jim

Jim,

it's not about me and "my order" (!!!???), it's more about RED and the future Epic "relations" with some of "hardcore" film shooters or in another way some of cinematographers who learned and used to work with OVF with film cameras before.

Arri is counting on this "heavily" and that its base customers for new Alexa OVF digital cameras...

As I experienced for now that with FLUT™™™ you can "push" and "pull" your image with new M-X sensor (in terms of film new stock) all that means is possible to work with RED new M-X sensor like with a film stock.

In that way some cinematographers like to see (and light) with optical viewfinder with the knowledge that later they can push or pull image in postproduction.

In this case the electronic preview would be more dedicated to AC, camera operator, director and producer,... on set preview.

 

[Jannard]

Jim,

it's not about me and "my order" (!!!???), it's more about RED and the future Epic "relations" with some of "hardcore" film shooters or in another way some of cinematographers who learned and used to work with OVF with film cameras before.

Arri is counting on this "heavily" and that its base customers for new Alexa cameras...

As I experienced for now that with FLUT™ you can "push" and "pull" your image with new M-X sensor (in terms of film new stock) all that means is possible to work with RED new sensor like with a film stock.

In that way some cinematographers like to see (and light) with optical viewfinder with the knowledge that later they can push or pull image in postproduction.

Electronic preview would be more dedicated to AC, camera operator, director and producer,... on set preview.

Sanjin... I'm all ears. But show me the money!

Jim

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Out of curiosity would RED use REDGamma and FLUT or prefer to go straight Camera RGB and rely exclusively on the colorist if they had full control over the process?

 

[Jannard]

Out of curiosity would RED use REDGamma and FLUT™™ or prefer to go straight Camera RGB and rely exclusively on the colorist if they had full control over the process?

It depends on who the colorists are... our experience tells us that REDcolor and REDgamma would be the best choice... although you can get the same results either way. It is just way easier using the former for color. FLUT I would recommend regardless.

Jim