RED #8 testing team & some details

[chuck colburn]

Tyler Texas BBQ

 

[chuck colburn]

I don't think the cost is the problem so much as determining who's going to be spending the money where and on what and how it's going to be kept warm if it needs to be warm or cold if it needs to be cold.

We *could* just go across a street and eat out en-masse.

I'm good at grilling so I could take charge of that. Besides I love handling really exspensive optics with my hands covered in pork fat.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Perhaps we should just move this food discussion to the REDTest forum? Although I'm sure lots of people find it fascinating

 

[Steve Gibby]

LOL...its better for the LART team members during the testing days to be hungry for RED knowledge, not hungry for food...but we'll figure out the food angle and keep everyone well fed. The studio we're testing at has a good BBQ setup/kitchen area. We'll make sure there's plenty of good quality chow for "da boyz"!

Yeah, we can move this culinary conundrum over to private LART chat. The cool thing is that some individuals have contacted me in private and offered to donate to the food budget for LART - something that is much appreciated by me and I'm sure also by the other LART team members. Thanks guys!

 

[Steve Gibby]

Lucas Wilson ("Luki" on RED User) of Assimilate has offered to supply their SCRATCH systems for use by the LART team...an offer me and Ken Corben have accepted on behalf of LART.

This will allow LART to work with RED files natively at 4k

http://www.assimilateinc.com/

Thanks for stepping up with that support Lucas!

Much appreciated...

 

[Mark Thorpe]

Good luck with it all.

Mark.

 

[Andrew Benz]

Lucas Wilson ("Luki" on RED User) of Assimilate has offered to supply their SCRATCH systems for use by the LART team...an offer me and Ken Corben have accepted on behalf of LART.

This will allow LART to work with RED files natively at 4k

http://www.assimilateinc.com/

Thanks for stepping up with that support Lucas!

Much appreciated...

Wow, that IS very gracious... cheers and thank you Lucas!

 

[Ace]

lol, I actually meant making some money off it. Not paying for food! heh heh

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

A closer look

A closer look

First off, thanks Lucas - I have heard many great things about Scratch. OTOH I am thinking we might want to test some other workflows as well. RedCine output using the built in "one light" CC engine, and, if available at the time of the LART, a FCP 6.1/Color pipeline.

We may have far too little time to address these color grading permutations during the 2 days scheduled but since not everyone will be able to kick down the bank for a Scratch seat it does warrant investigation - even if it takes place after the LART.

Along the lines of this issue I am wondering what we will use as the definitive real time or near real time monitoring solution? I am guessing that neither the single or dual link SDI outputs will be operational at the time of the LART which leaves us with the 5" LCD???

Perhaps we can sneaker-net the RedDrives or RedRam or CF cards to the Scratch stations? I have an eCinema evaluation monitor I can bring if the producers would like (limited to single link HD-SDI which means 4:2:2 1080P tops but with the bonus that it will display actual frame rates including 23.98) and I understand that the facility has some high end monitoring options that the Scratch stations could drive, presumably via dual link HD-SDI in 4:4:4 color space at 1080P or perhaps 2K???

Mine eyes wish to see the glory

 

[Jarred Land]

I am guessing that neither the single or dual link SDI outputs will be operational at the time of the LART

i wouldn't put any money on that if I were you.. (wink wink)

 

[Brook Willard]

Hell, if they were functional at NAB... they must be functional at ship!

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Lucas Wilson ("Luki" on RED User) of Assimilate has offered to supply their SCRATCH systems for use by the LART team...an offer me and Ken Corben have accepted on behalf of LART.

This will allow LART to work with RED files natively at 4k

http://www.assimilateinc.com/

Thanks for stepping up with that support Lucas!

Much appreciated...

Tx Gibby... glad to be a part of this. Should be a good time!

Lucas

 

[Lucas Wilson]

First off, thanks Lucas - I have heard many great things about Scratch. OTOH I am thinking we might want to test some other workflows as well. RedCine output using the built in "one light" CC engine, and, if available at the time of the LART, a FCP 6.1/Color pipeline.

Blair,

Well - the footage will be in the can after the tests, so you can test whatever workflows you want.

Seriously though, tests like this can spiral out of control very quickly by trying to do too much. The purpose of this test (in my humble opinion) is to test the camera, not the post workflows. Testing post workflows can come after the camera test in some fashion.

FCP and Color do not address REDCODE in 4K. The tests need a tool that can see the material in its highest resolution native form. REDCINE and SCRATCH will both be on set, and since those are the only two applications that currently support REDCODE RAW at 4K, it seems to make sense to use those.

Also... I drive a beat-up Ford F-150 with 140,000 miles on it, and my wife and I teach our kids the lyrics to Gretchen Wilson songs primarily to irritate family. I grew up in Alabama, and I work for BBQ. 'nuff said.

Lucas Wilson
------------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[Edmund Boyle]

Thanks for testing

Thanks for testing

How independent is this test if the testers are mainly moderators of this site: Evin Grant, Häakon, Brook Willard, Jeff Kilgroe?



I have been following the threads over the past months of all those mentioned above. I believe the proposed testing carried out by this team and those taking part in the test will be nothing but unbiased and professional.

The amount of information I have learned from their contribution to this forum is greatly appreciated. Thier enthusiasm for new technology should never be misconstrued as a biased support. The notion that these people will donate their time by testing the camera critically and then publish the results by putting their names to it highly commendable.:excl:

Well done guys! And Thanks!

 

[Steve Gibby]

Seriously though, tests like this can spiral out of control very quickly by trying to do too much. The purpose of this test (in my humble opinion) is to test the camera, not the post workflows. Testing post workflows can come after the camera test in some fashion.

Very well said Lucas. In my posts #194 and 216 of this thread I explained the goals and limitations of the LART testing in similar terms. Those who are curious about the parameters of the LART testing should review those posts of mine to get an accurate picture of what LART will/can do, and what we simply won't have time to do. LART will be a first-look, hands-on testing/shooting of the cameras with various lens and accessory combinations. I would guess that in the months after the first cameras ship, many entities will dive into the nuances of post workflows. LART is about generating some images, analyzing how they look, doing some tests on the qualities of the footage, and hands-on impressions of using the camera system. That will easily fill two days of work.

FCP and Color do not address REDCODE in 4K. The tests need a tool that can see the material in its highest resolution native form. REDCINE and SCRATCH will both be on set, and since those are the only two applications that currently support REDCODE RAW at 4K, it seems to make sense to use those.

We'll need to review the 4k REDCODE RAW footage shot at LART, and the combination of SCRATCH and REDCINE will give us the tools to do that. Thanks again for supplying SCRATCH (and yourself!) for the tests.

Also... I drive a beat-up Ford F-150 with 140,000 miles on it, and my wife and I teach our kids the lyrics to Gretchen Wilson songs primarily to irritate family. I grew up in Alabama, and I work for BBQ. 'nuff said.

Yeah buddy, we're fixin' ta have the best BBQ this side of the Pecos River - good fixins fer all!

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Looky loo

Looky loo

Limitations understood, I even put a caveat in my post that I didn't expect any real post workflow evaluations until after the LART. My desire was to look at how we would approach image analysis.

I actually posted earlier that Gibby and Ken might want to reach out to the Red Team to see if we could use their Sony 4k projector for a couple of days and wondered how we would drive it since the only way I know of is 8 lanes of HD-SDI. This is also likely to be beyond our parameters but it is fun to dream about

I am simply interested in having the best possible look at the footage. I have not worked with Scratch, I assume it will it allow us to zoom in to a 1 to 1 pixel view of a portion of the image on whatever monitor we have via HD-SDI?

Note to Luki - I never meant to imply that Scratch was not worth the price, in fact people I have talked to give it high marks for value and performance. I was simply alluding to the fact that the RedUser community is made up of a wide variety of image makers at many different budget levels, some of whom would be looking at the lowest cost solution.

BTW I drive a beat up Dodge 1500 - MoPar rules! h34r:

 

[Andrew Benz]

Yeah buddy, we're fixin' ta have the best BBQ this side of the Pecos River - good fixins fer all!

I reckon' I should feel right at home! But it should be quite a sight seeing a super model attack a plate o' cue! As always thank you Gibby and Ken!

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Limitations understood, I even put a caveat in my post that I didn't expect any real post workflow evaluations until after the LART. My desire was to look at how we would approach image analysis.

I actually posted earlier that Gibby and Ken might want to reach out to the Red Team to see if we could use their Sony 4k projector for a couple of days and wondered how we would drive it since the only way I know of is 8 lanes of HD-SDI. This is also likely to be beyond our parameters but it is fun to dream about

I am simply interested in having the best possible look at the footage. I have not worked with Scratch, I assume it will it allow us to zoom in to a 1 to 1 pixel view of a portion of the image on whatever monitor we have via HD-SDI?

Note to Luki - I never meant to imply that Scratch was not worth the price, in fact people I have talked to give it high marks for value and performance. I was simply alluding to the fact that the RedUser community is made up of a wide variety of image makers at many different budget levels, some of whom would be looking at the lowest cost solution.

BTW I drive a beat up Dodge 1500 - MoPar rules! h34r:

Hi Blair - I never thought you were implying anything negative... not necessary to go there.

Yes, SCRATCH will allow a 1:1 viewing via DVI, Single link HD-SDI, or dual-link 4:4:4 HD-RGB up to 2048x1080.

Getting the Sony 4K is less than half the battle. Then you need an appropriate screen (size and perf,) a calibrated viewing environment, a room dialed in with it, etc, etc.

However - that gives me an idea. Going to go off and work on it for a day or two... (rubbing hands together)

Lucas

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

4K, there is no substitute

4K, there is no substitute

I am under the impression the facility has a 2K Christie (Gibby or Ken can correct me if I am wrong) which means they likely have a dedicated room with a decent sized screen that might make a viable if not "perfect" viewing environment. Whether they are cool with the LART team bringing another projector in there is more presumptuous than I care to be but perhaps...

Anyway, really looking forward to meeting you and let me join the chorus in thanking you for bringing your Scratch systems to the LART and for your willingness to embrace RED this past year.

 

[Tom Lowe]

When is all of this taking place? 28 pages is a little too much to dig through.