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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Recording audio directly into a RED DSMC2 camera

The camera. With the OMOD and the v-mount (I assume) and a hypercore will be a good 5 feet long off the back there. The Mozegear is a much improved better version of a WC A box.
 
Jeremy Ryan said:
Just go through these pics: https://www.flickr.com/photos/85198244@N02/
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Hey Jeremy you mentioned using the Mozegear mini-papi with your RED and that you miss the DSCM camera, but from the pics you shared it looks like you're still using the older RED's. Are those old pics? If so, have you tried using the Mozegear mini-papi on DSMC2 cameras and has it solved all of your audio issues? Thanks!!
 
Ya keeping it compact with still having the accessories can be tough. I think it says its 2 inches online, Mark posted these on FB of Renan Ozturk with one and It doesn't look like it adds too much.
16991723_10212034915092410_7993309323093801327_o.jpg

17015654_10212034914972407_2514383339342785886_o.jpg
 
emil_h said:
Hey Jeremy you mentioned using the Mozegear mini-papi with your RED and that you miss the DSCM camera, but from the pics you shared it looks like you're still using the older RED's. Are those old pics? If so, have you tried using the Mozegear mini-papi on DSMC2 cameras and has it solved all of your audio issues? Thanks!!
Click to expand...

Yes. Those are old pictures. We now run the scarlet w and have the mini papi attached to camera through the vmount expander. It's the best, easiest, lightest run and gun option that we have found to date with phantom power. You need some extra cables though, but they're cheaper cables. I will take pictures as soon as I am home. 10 days out.
 
Jeremy Ryan said:
Yes. Those are old pictures. We now run the scarlet w and have the mini papi attached to camera through the vmount expander. It's the best, easiest, lightest run and gun option that we have found to date with phantom power. You need some extra cables though, but they're cheaper cables. I will take pictures as soon as I am home. 10 days out.
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Awesome, thanks for the info! I'm assuming you mean the DSMC2 Base Expander and if so, do you plug the mini papi directly into the 3.5mm jack? Also, do you adjust the gains only on the mini papi or on the camera as well? Thanks again
 
We do it by the mozegear cause it's a knob. However, the advantage is the lo-cut knob. I never ran my ntg Mics because they pick up so much bass and gusts and what not. Pretty much everyone sounds like Howard Stern with those things. That's why we moved to a Sony mic on the old dragon with A box. It had a lo-cut switch in it. Papi actually has a knob for it and we can dust off and use the ntg's again. You have to have a TA3F to 3.5mm cable and however you want to plug in to camera. We use the micro USB to USB. Some people have a d tap or 3 Pin or p tap or other stuff to power it i have heard.
 
Makes sense. Have you ever plugged in a wireless lav into the Papi and the Papi into the RED? If so, how were the results?
 
I believe you can just hook the lavs direct in to the expander 3.5mm because you really don't need the preamp and phantom power with lavs as they are battery powered. If you do need it though, the mozegear would work essentially the same way. I did ask Mozegear why the TA3 connection instead of 3.5mm and they said they wanted it to lock tight in there to keep a secure connection. And when I think about it, that is a good idea.
 
Jeremy Ryan said:
I believe you can just hook the lavs direct in to the expander 3.5mm because you really don't need the preamp and phantom power with lavs as they are battery powered. If you do need it though, the mozegear would work essentially the same way. I did ask Mozegear why the TA3 connection instead of 3.5mm and they said they wanted it to lock tight in there to keep a secure connection. And when I think about it, that is a good idea.
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Interesting. When I've tried to attach the lav directly into the exander the audio isn't very clean. I was hoping that the pre-amp might help clean it up...
 
Quick note: be sure and check the manual for your particular setup - particularly the Base Expander audio jacks - to be sure your TRS (tip, ring, sleeve) assignments are correct. See below copied from user manual:

STEREO MICROPHONE
The following expanders feature a stereo microphone jack:
DSMC2 Base Expander DSMC2 V-Lock I/O Expander
The 3.5mm stereo microphone provides two (2) channels of audio for recording.
PIN SIGNAL
TIP LEFT
RING RIGHT
SLEEVE GND

Be aware that if one of the three "lanes" is unoccupied it can provide an opening for EMF intrusion.
Be aware that not all microphone/mixer source leads will have 1/8" mini plugs that use the same tip/ring/sleeve assignments.

Cheers - #19
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Quick note: be sure and check the manual for your particular setup - particularly the Base Expander audio jacks - to be sure your TRS (tip, ring, sleeve) assignments are correct. See below copied from user manual:

STEREO MICROPHONE
The following expanders feature a stereo microphone jack:
DSMC2 Base Expander DSMC2 V-Lock I/O Expander
The 3.5mm stereo microphone provides two (2) channels of audio for recording.
PIN SIGNAL
TIP LEFT
RING RIGHT
SLEEVE GND

Be aware that if one of the three "lanes" is unoccupied it can provide an opening for EMF intrusion.
Be aware that not all microphone/mixer source leads will have 1/8" mini plugs that use the same tip/ring/sleeve assignments.

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...

Do you mind elaborating what this means exactly? I'm using a the I/O Expander. Is the manual saying that the correct type of 3.5mm jack is needed?
 
Jeremy Ryan said:
I believe you can just hook the lavs direct in to the expander 3.5mm because you really don't need the preamp and phantom power with lavs as they are battery powered. If you do need it though, the mozegear would work essentially the same way. I did ask Mozegear why the TA3 connection instead of 3.5mm and they said they wanted it to lock tight in there to keep a secure connection. And when I think about it, that is a good idea.
Click to expand...

Hello Jeremy,

Great find with the Mozegear Mini Papi. I'm on their site right now and I'm wondering which version you purchased, Papi A, Papi C or Papi X? You keep mentioning using a TA3 to 3.5 adapter but the Papi C which Mozegear recommends for RED users, is a TA5 output. Also, I see only one XLR input for the Mini Papi. Does this mean you're using two Mini Papis, one for each channel? Thanks again for the find. I use an A-Box but I believe it's faulty. I keep getting interference now and again, but I always have an audio tech recording to an external cause RED audio is unreliable. Even still my clients get annoyed I'm not getting good audio in camera and they have to sync to my audio techs backup (not really a backup though, it's the best audio and what RED records is scratch). Also who did you purchase the Mini Papi through?
 
I'm going to have to check out those Mozegear preamps. I tried out the Tilta cage, and can't recommend it for audio. It's a great design other than that, but the advanced I/O module is a fail; Tilta removed the phantom power circuitry because it wasn't reliable (what Tilta's rep told me), and it relies on the Red's preamps, which are only decent. It also doesn't have physical faders, which is a drag since the on-screen faders aren't all that precise. Also, Red's on-camera preamps are a bit noisy. Izotope's RX noise reduction took care of it nicely, but it shouldn't be a necessity.

To use it in the field, we had to add a Whirlwind mic preamp in order to use any of my mics with it, which largely negated the benefit of having the XLRs on the camera in the first place. Hopefully Tilta will address this, because other than that, its design is great; .lots of connections, and very light.
 
What do you guys think about using the mini-papa in conjunction with a Røde ngt4+ or other mics with internal phantom power?

How much cleaner would the sound be?
 
ive personally given up on this as through many productions ive had professional sound mixers, camera houses and audio post houses try anything they could, but realistically the in camera sound recording is just made for a scratch track, like the alexa, and back to the film days when good motion picture cameras didnt record audio. having a scratch track is considered a bonus of a motion picture camera with these capabilities. they are just not made to capture good sound, the best and really only option is to have a professional sound recordist with you mixing and capturing and sync in post.
 
I've done it with some success in interviews, but I wouldn't do it for much else. We used a Sound Devices 633 with the outputs going to the Red via a Tilta I/O module, and the Red's preamp gain set to 0dB. It sounded clean when monitoring, so hopefully the recording is also nice and clean... but we have recording from the 633 as well, in case it isn't.
 
Alejandro Marin said:
Hello Jeremy,

Great find with the Mozegear Mini Papi. I'm on their site right now and I'm wondering which version you purchased, Papi A, Papi C or Papi X? You keep mentioning using a TA3 to 3.5 adapter but the Papi C which Mozegear recommends for RED users, is a TA5 output. Also, I see only one XLR input for the Mini Papi. Does this mean you're using two Mini Papis, one for each channel? Thanks again for the find. I use an A-Box but I believe it's faulty. I keep getting interference now and again, but I always have an audio tech recording to an external cause RED audio is unreliable. Even still my clients get annoyed I'm not getting good audio in camera and they have to sync to my audio techs backup (not really a backup though, it's the best audio and what RED records is scratch). Also who did you purchase the Mini Papi through?
Click to expand...

Alejandro,

I'm not Jeremy but I believe I can help answer some of your questions as I'm getting ready to purchase a Mini Papi here soon. I'm most likely going to purchase mine through Gotham Sound. I sent their Atlanta shop an email requesting a quote for the Mini Papi and the cables I'd need (based on my setup, which is Core SWX HC-9 batteries). This is what I would recommend to you:

Mini Papi C w/TA5 Output
1/8" - TA5F Unbal Tape Out SD (Audio cable from Papi to Expander DSMC2)
Sound Devices XL-AB Hirose-PTa (Power cable from Core to Papi)
XLR Shortie Male to Female (Short XLR cable from Papi to mic)
 
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