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Recommended Mac-Compatible SCSI and SAS Tape HBA solutions

Tim Jones

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Hi Folks,

I've received quite a few private messages asking about the available SAS and SCSI HBA's that support tape for the Mac family, so I thought that I'd consolidate the information here.

Note - Adaptec-based HBAs do not work properly under OS X, so stay away from Adaptec HBAs in the Mac environment.

The HBAs mentioned below have actually been tested in our labs with a wide variety of tape drives including QIC/MLR, DAT, DLT, AIT, and LTO.

Mac Pro Systems (Intel-based) and Late-model G5 Systems - PCI-E bus:
SAS:
ATTO Technologies ExpressSAS H380 (*) - no longer made
ATTO Technologies ExpressSAS R380 (*) - no longer made
ATTO Technologies ExpressSAS H680
ATTO Technologies ExpressSAS R680
(other ATTO ExpressSAS cards with proper connectivity also work)​
LSI Logic LSISAS3801E [Update Feb 16, 2012] LSI appears to have dropped Mac efforts.​
SCSI:
ATTO Technologies ExpressSCSI UL5D
We don't recommend the generic LSI SCSI cards for tape connectivity​


Power Mac systems (G4, G5) - PCIx bus:
SAS:
No tested SAS Solutions for PCIx systems. This is primarliy related to the fact that PCIx is limited to 133MB/sec and that is far short of the 3Gb/sec capability of SAS.
​

SCSI:
ATTO Technologies ExpressSCSI UL3(S/D) - no longer made
ATTO Technologies ExpressSCSI UL4(S/D) - no longer made
ACARD AEC-6712TUM
ACARD AEC-67162M
ACARD AEC-6712WM
We don't recommend the generic LSI or Apple SCSI cards for tape connectivity​


Update 16-Feb-2012: Areca still has not resolved issues with tape I/O, so we do not recommend connecting tape drives to the Areca SAS HBA's. If you must use one, you will be limited to a 128K I/O buffer size.

Update 16-Feb-2012: Highpoint still has not resolved issues with tape I/O, so we do not recommend connecting tape drives to the Highpoint SAS HBA's. If you must use one, you will be limited to a 128K I/O buffer size and dramatically reduced tape I/O speed.

Update: New - OS X and Linux users can purchase complete bundles directly from TOLIS Group as a single purchase - Drive, HBA, Cable, software, and support. The bundles can be found at the ProductionBackup.com site and we ship worldwide.


Sources:
 
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ah interesting thread start! :) FWIW, regarding PCIE HBAS used for ULtrium SAS LTO4 tape archives on MACOSX, I had the opportunity to test out a new MACOSX supported SAS HBA (only) from ARECA the ARC-1300-4x. Areca is a Taiwanese company that makes HABS for RAID and so on.

I dont believe this ARC-1300-4x is a supported SAS HBA from Tolisgroup but I just wanted to add that this is perhaps a future option for this of us who are budget constrained. I'm hopeful that Tim and his team can examine this later as an option.

I tested this ARC-1300-4x against the available LTO4 Ultrium SAS tape drives at my disposal (HP1840, HP1760 and the Quantum TC-L42B HH desktop) using BRU-PE on this MAC PRO 2009 2.93Ghz Nehalem. The ARC-1300-4x was in PCIE SLOT3 and shows up as a x4 HBA.

Summary: ARC-1300 SAS PCIE HBA for MAC/OSX using TAPE DRIVES:
  • they all work with BRU-PE - BRU-PE sees and directs the tape drives through this ARC-1300-4x HBA
  • some limitations that I drew to the attention of the ARECA distributor relating to available data tape blocksize and SAS domain issues, etc
  • the documentation for the ARC-1300 is most excellent! some 64+ pages in English for windah's, MACOSX and (Linux??) installers - really really good diagrammes and easy to read 12pt+font ... great work there!
  • internal SAS edge connector and 1 x SFF-8088 multilane sas connector.

And!

Amazingly it works with the Quantum SAS HH desktop TC-L42B! :) Unlike the LSI LOGIC 3442e-r PCIE HBA (whic I had to buy for my Quantum tape drive to work on this MAC), the ARECA PCIE ARC-1300-4x has a supplied and installed driver for MACOSX! Brilliant!

I wont supply performance details until the Areca guys have had a chance to have a look at others with whom they have tested the ARC-1300. However suffice to say with the ARC-1300-4x card's limitations it compares somewhat with the performance ATTO EXPRESSAS R380 and the LSI LOGIC SAS3442e-r HBAs I have in this mac... again there are some limitations with the ARC-1300-4x but the material I tested with (an RDM/R3D mag directory and some P2 DVCPROHD ) was archived and recalled just fine. For those that might want to know, the source and targets of these archive/recall where two SAS disk arrays capable of over 430MB/sec (ATTO R380) with the Kona system test tool -

Oh the price?

I'm guessing it will be sub $USD120 - yep. that low. THe card supplier was unsure at this stage.

I imagine you can buy these now.


For me this is another excellent option for connectivity for MACOSX and Quantum LTO4 TC-L42B HH SAS tape drives rather than having to rely on a working but dodgy/unsupported LSI driver in MACOSX for their  RAID card that seems to make the LSI-SAS3442E-R work with SAS tape drives.

However I think you will get what you pay for as usual.

Lastly ATTO EXPRESSSAS HBA's (R380) are solid for MACOSx and SAS tape drives... I'm happy with mine and will look for future support of the ATTO EXPRESSSAS 6Gb/s line - may be an option for future LTO5 Ultrium at 220MB/sec+ .. I dunno.

Oh one more thing for the thread is that for those of you with 2009 Nehalem MACPROs or aspirations therein to utilise any of the SAS PCIE HBA's on these new NEHALEM boxes, I can atest that the ATTOTECH SAS EXPRESS R380 works fine with tape drives (and disks ofcourse) (I put it in the x16 PCIE SLOT2 as a x8) and also the LSI LOGIC SAS3442E-R which resides in PCIE slot4 as a x4 (use this for Quantum tape drive and also HP ones).

fwiw
w
 
Firmware upgrade for Quantum LTO-4HH

Firmware upgrade for Quantum LTO-4HH

Hi.

Please forgive another possibly dumb question about the Quantum LTO-4HH disc drive. As I am a newbie perhaps you can tolerate me going through my thought process and then tell me I'm nuts!

I have been following several threads about tape drives for archiving and backup and my understanding is that the Quantum is not recommended for the Mac Pro unless you get the whole bundle (ie: the Quantum with LSI PCIe HBA). If you get this, the drive will work with Bru LE/PE and is considered to be an OK piece of kit apart from a slightly noisier fan than the other alternative in a similar price bracket which seems to be the HP 1760HH tape. I hope that I am correct so far.

Now, next problem. The Atto R380 HBA. Like many Mac Pro users (Nahalem), by the time you have got a graphics card, internal RAID card (the Apple one seems to be the only one that will work in these new machines at the moment for the internal discs) and a Kona 3 card, I am left with one slot to host the tape drive and the much recommended external RAID necessary to do serious uncompressed HD work. The Atto R380 PCIe HBA with two external SAS sockets seems to be the one to have. So far so good?

I am based in the UK and the downside of the Hewlett Packard tape is that it costs about £500 more over here than the Quantum. Obviously there are many other things that I could spend that kind of money on but I am also aware that it would be a false economy if the bloody thing won't work when I get it! Hence a bit of research before buying.

Talking to a european Quantum representative, he said that firmware update V2190 should fix the problems with the Atto cards. So, first question; have any of you tried this. It is available at:

http://www.quantum.com/ServiceandSu...ntationDownloads/LTO-4Half-Height/Index.aspx#

My next understanding is that even if it does fix the problem, the next issue is getting the firmware into the tape drive without a Windows PC. The european rep said that it should be possible to get a tape with the firmware image on it and all you then had to do was insert it into the drive and the drive would detect it and automatically update. Sounds easy doesn't it? So what's the catch? I am asking the rep if he could send/sell me one of these magical tapes.

So has anyone got the new firmware to work with the Atto HBA's on the new Mac Pro's and Leopard? Or is the consensus still don't touch it get the Hewlett Packard?

Thanks for any light you care to shed on this.


David Barlow.
 
I have been following several threads about tape drives for archiving and backup and my understanding is that the Quantum is not recommended for the Mac Pro unless you get the whole bundle (ie: the Quantum with LSI PCIe HBA). If you get this, the drive will work with Bru LE/PE and is considered to be an OK piece of kit apart from a slightly noisier fan than the other alternative in a similar price bracket which seems to be the HP 1760HH tape. I hope that I am correct so far.
Yes - with one caveat...

Now, next problem. The Atto R380 HBA. Like many Mac Pro users (Nahalem), by the time you have got a graphics card, internal RAID card (the Apple one seems to be the only one that will work in these new machines at the moment for the internal discs) and a Kona 3 card, I am left with one slot to host the tape drive and the much recommended external RAID necessary to do serious uncompressed HD work. The Atto R380 PCIe HBA with two external SAS sockets seems to be the one to have. So far so good?
Absolutely - you get the best of both worlds, but you may wish to consider the R680 to get you the 6Gbs for future performance growth with your array.

I am based in the UK and the downside of the Hewlett Packard tape is that it costs about £500 more over here than the Quantum. Obviously there are many other things that I could spend that kind of money on but I am also aware that it would be a false economy if the bloody thing won't work when I get it! Hence a bit of research before buying.
Research is always a bargain!

Talking to a european Quantum representative, he said that firmware update V2190 should fix the problems with the Atto cards. So, first question; have any of you tried this. It is available at:

http://www.quantum.com/ServiceandSu...ntationDownloads/LTO-4Half-Height/Index.aspx#

My next understanding is that even if it does fix the problem, the next issue is getting the firmware into the tape drive without a Windows PC. The european rep said that it should be possible to get a tape with the firmware image on it and all you then had to do was insert it into the drive and the drive would detect it and automatically update. Sounds easy doesn't it? So what's the catch? I am asking the rep if he could send/sell me one of these magical tapes.
The flash tape is the only solution for Mac users right now. If they can provide the tape (they'll probably want it back), you're good to go. Otherwise, you could ask for a source for buying an updated drive. Without one of those two options, a Mac user is pretty well up the proverbial creek without a tape drive :).

So has anyone got the new firmware to work with the Atto HBA's on the new Mac Pro's and Leopard? Or is the consensus still don't touch it get the Hewlett Packard?

Thanks for any light you care to shed on this.
If - and only IF - they can provide a preflashed drive or a copy of the flash tape, the Quantum drive is a bargain. Otherwise, the HP drive is a sure thing.

Tim
 
Thank you Tim. I will follow up and see if I can source a tape. It is a holiday weekend here in the UK so it may be a few days but I let you know what I find out.

David Barlow
 
Hi Tim!!

I have a PPC G5 and recently purchased an LSI SAS3801X to compliment the Highpoint 2322 I have in my pc. I know that there aren't any native Mac drivers for the LSI card. I installed the card and the G5 doesn't see it at all. Linux is my main OS and I'm very comfortable and literate with CLI commands. On linux, I would use the command lspci to see what hardware is occupying what pci lane. Any ideas for the G5?...gui or shell wise? Are there any BSD drivers that you are aware of?

Any help or tips that you know of would be appreciated.

Thanks!!

KH
 
R380 Driver installed : no more display on Monitor Mac Pro Nehalem

R380 Driver installed : no more display on Monitor Mac Pro Nehalem

Hello,
I've just received one Mac Pro Nehalem 2,26 today. Everything worked well.
But :
After the install of Atto R380 driver, I have no more display on the monitor (I read "no signal" on the monitor)
T shut down Mac Pro and install R380 card : again "no signal" on the monitor.
Please help me
Thank you
Nhan
 
Hello,
I found the cause : NO-Compatibility beween the monitor Nec 2692WUXI and the ATI 4870 card
But I do not find the solution excepting changing monitor
Nhan
 
Hi everyone,

Further to my own post above I have more news. There has been a short pause whilst I bought my tape drive. However, I can report that here in the UK the support by individuals at Quantum here has been exemplary. I elected to get the Quantum LTO-4HH drive to go with the Atto R380 HBA. It seems no one can tell me when the newer better R680 will arrive and I really can't wait any longer. The expected mismatch occurred (see Tim Jones post above). However, I was sent an FUP (Flash) tape by an extremely helpful guy at Quantum to upgrade the firmware. I put it into the drive, it whirred flashed its lights and updated itself with no involvement by the computer (MacPro Nahalem) and no downloading via PC. Within a minute, I could see the drive in the system profiler and I was immediately creating my first archive using a trial copy of BRU LE. It took a couple of hours or so to copy and verify 210GB data. I think that is in the correct ballpark.

So the Quantum support seems to be alive and well in the UK and everything is rosy. The main point for everyone here is that firmware update V2190 works and I have an FUP tape with it on. You only need to use it once and Quantum have said they are happy for me to pass it on. So anyone with a mac only setup who can use it let me know. I am UK based so it would make sense that anyone here use it but I am sure it can be sent anywhere. Let me know.

I now have another question for Tim about BRU LE. I am only a one man band and so, although I will over time archive a lot of data, it is not likely to be archived terabytes at a time! So does the 250 GB limit apply just to each archiving chunk? It's just that BRU LE is a very reasonable price and seems very simple to understand for someone like me. I know that lots of people in other threads seem very happy with it. I haven't trialled the PE version in case it's too tempting to spend even more money than I already have! Will small single low volume users like me really see a benefit or will the LE version suffice? You are going to tell me to try PE aren't you. I know it!

Regards,

David Barlow
 
Quantum and BRU LE vs. BRU PE

Quantum and BRU LE vs. BRU PE

However, I was sent an FUP (Flash) tape by an extremely helpful guy at Quantum to upgrade the firmware. I put it into the drive, it whirred flashed its lights and updated itself with no involvement by the computer (MacPro Nahalem) and no downloading via PC. Within a minute, I could see the drive in the system profiler and I was immediately creating my first archive using a trial copy of BRU LE. It took a couple of hours or so to copy and verify 210GB data. I think that is in the correct ballpark.
David, that's great news and thanks for the update about both Quantum's willingness to work with you and your success with the drive.
I now have another question for Tim about BRU LE. I am only a one man band and so, although I will over time archive a lot of data, it is not likely to be archived terabytes at a time! So does the 250 GB limit apply just to each archiving chunk?
The BRU LE limit is there because BRU LE's catalog structure was designed for what Apple's team referred to as a "Standard Desktop" during our development. As always, we've discovered that Apple's idea of an "average desktop" and reality are two very different things.

The 250GB limit is an arbitrary one and the real limitation is one of file count. As long as you're keeping your file count per archive below around 50K-75K files, BRU LE will do what you need.

It's just that BRU LE is a very reasonable price and seems very simple to understand for someone like me. I know that lots of people in other threads seem very happy with it. I haven't trialled the PE version in case it's too tempting to spend even more money than I already have! Will small single low volume users like me really see a benefit or will the LE version suffice? You are going to tell me to try PE aren't you. I know it!
BRU PE is aimed more at session management and more advanced processes such as Doubler Mode (create 2 tapes of the same data simultaneously), Separate Session Mode (create a single job that will slice what's written to tape into more manageable segments), and an even more simplified QuickArchive interface to keep interns from becoming frightened by all of the options.

Tim
 
USB 2.0 to SCSI News

USB 2.0 to SCSI News

Hi Folks,

As I mentioned in the other tape thread, we've received the RATOC Systems U2SCX USB 2.0 to UltraSCSI adapter. This should allow a Mac Book or Mac Book Pro user to connect an LTO-2 or LTO-3 SCSI drive to their system.

My initial thoughts are "simplicity" - plug it in a go. The only build issue I have with it is the fact that RATOC has stayed with the MD50F SCSI-2 connector circa 1994. This means that most users will require an MD50M - MD68M adapter since modern SCSI drive use the MD68 connector, adding $40 or so to the project price.

The build quality is good and the attached USB-2.0 cable is very high quality. If you're working with an external drive that doesn't provide termination power (first generation LTO-1 or AIT-1, for example), RATOC also offers a power adapter for $30.

The unit comes with software for OS X, Windows 2000/XP, and Windows Vista.

We're waiting on our MD50M to MD68M adapter (CablestoGo.com PN: 18415 External SCSI-3 MD68M to SCSI-2 MD50F High-line Adapter) to provide performance feedback.

Tim
 
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Interesting solution. Hope it works out.

While I'm thinking of it, Tim... Have you (or anyone else in this thread) had any experience with the HP 1760 or other LTO-4 SAS drive connected to the ATTO 6GB HBA's? Either way, I'll find out. I have an ATTO H680 arriving sometime next week and will be connecting the HP 1760 to it in a brand new Mac Pro. I'm not expecting any issues since the H380 works beautifully...
 
It's ATTO, of course it works.

It's ATTO, of course it works.

While I'm thinking of it, Tim... Have you (or anyone else in this thread) had any experience with the HP 1760 or other LTO-4 SAS drive connected to the ATTO 6GB HBA's? Either way, I'll find out.
Worked right out of the box. We also use the H644 in our bruAPP appliances to support the internal and externally attached SAS tape.

We've tested the 1760 and 1840 (LTO-4), the LTO-3s, the LTO-2s, and the DAT160s from HP's stable.

Tim
 
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RATOC USB 2.0 to SCSI Adapter Cable First Notes

RATOC USB 2.0 to SCSI Adapter Cable First Notes

Hi Folks,

We've now gotten everything in hand for the RATOC USB 2.0 to SCSI tests.

Executive Summary: If you already own a SCSI DAT or AIT drive, the RATOC U2SCX is a great way to use that drive on an iMac, Mac Book, or Mac Book Pro. If you're looking to buy such a drive, the existing USB version from HP will provide a better, integrated solution for the same resulting $$.

Test Environment:

Systems:
Rev 1 Mac Pro Quad Core, OS X 10.4.11
2009 Mac Pro 8 Core Nahalem, OS X 10.5.7
2004 PowerMac 1.5GHz, OS X 10.4.11
20" iMac OS X 10.5.7 (and that new, unmentionable version)
15" Mac Book Pro, OS X 10.5.7​

Tape Drives:
HP DDS4 DAT40 SCSI
HP DAT72 SCSI
HP DDS3 DAT24 SCSI
HP DAT160 SCSI
Sony AIT-2 SCSI
HP LTO-1 SCSI
HP LTO-2 SCSI
Quantum/Certance LTO-2 SCSI
IBM LTO-2 SCSI
(I didn't even bother with the LTO-3 or LTO-4 drives...)​

The results were disheartening as none of the SCSI III devices (LTO) worked. However, ALL of the SCSI-2 drives functioned perfectly and at full speed using BRU.

We've sent these same results off to RATOC to see if they had guidance for working with the higher-speed devices. As soon as we hear back from them, I'll update this post.

Of course, as fate would have it, as soon as we got the testing completed on the U2SCX, I received a notice of the new availability of the U2SCX-LVD USB to LVD adapter :crazy:. We're waiting for that to arrive and I'll followup with more details as soon as we get the testing done :drool5:. The interesting difference in this new device is that it's pricing is on par with an ATTO ExpressPCI UL4S ($295) and it will actually allow daisy chaining SCSI devices (the U2SCX doesn't allow daisy chaining devices).


Tim
 
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Sigh. From Tolis, after a back-n-forth about the differences between BRU-LE and BRU-PE:

TOLIS Group will not support a BRU LE installation in which a single backup exceeds 250GB. That is what is was designed to do and going beyond that is outside of it's design parameters.

So, I'm looking to backup 800GB, around 10K files, to a single LTO-4 tape. Is anyone doing this often and successfully with BRU-LE? An additional ~$400 for the ability to use the full (uncompressed) capacity of an LTO-4 drive seems quite steep, but maybe it's worth it to be using a "supported" config if you have to contact them for support.
 
This was several people in a support ticket (#171117). The final word came from "Jeff, Technical Support Lead".

The initial question was about using BRU-LE to back-up (albeit slowly) from a network-mounted AFP volume, which is something that's evidently flat-out denied by BRU-LE. Granted, I'd mostly be archiving off just-completed FCP/DVDSP projects from a local volume, but I do have occasional need to archive stuff off of various NAS boxes, including a large backlog of previous projects that predate my purchase of a tape drive, and copying that data down locally would just be an annoyance. Especially since the bru command-line utility that comes with both BRU-LE and BRU-PE has no issue reading from remote volumes. Truthfully, it seems like getting BRU-PE is the safest solution since then I don't have to worry about the number of files in an archive, but several of the limitations of BRU-LE seem to be a bit artificial.

Oh, I will also add that I think it's great that Tolis provides fully-functional demos with a minimum of fuss so you can kick the tires. The lack of backing up remote volumes I couldn't find on any description or comparison chart (maybe it is there somewhere). And the 250GB limit just seems odd since a LOT of tape drives and hard drives are larger than that these days, and 250GB itself is an odd number (not a power of two, etc.), so if the real limitation is the number of files in the archive (or possibly some combination of the two), I think it'd be better if the marketing material just said that, especially if the 250GB "limit" doesn't actually seem to be enforced in the software--just got my tape drive today, and tapes don't arrive until Friday, so I don't know how/if BRU-LE deals with trying to back up more than it's able. Does it crash? Does it tell you up front that you're doing too much? Does the verify pass fail?
 
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BRU LE let me back up to 800GB LTO-4 tapes. It seemed to work just fine, but it also seemed to use a lot more overhead than the ~18% or so used by the BRU PE or server editions. Maybe I was just imagining it. I've completely established my backups on BRU PE and it's been great.

In adding the RED Rocket™ to the system, I had to trim down the number of cards inside this Mac Pro, which meant I needed to somehow combine my SAS and eSATA functionality into one slot. Or at least that was the most logical solution, since good SAS controllers are also downward compatible with SATA devices. But this also meant I had to get rid of the LSI controller for my Quantum LTO-4 and my CalDigit 4-port eSATA card. I replaced them with the ATTO H680 HBA. So far, I am very pelased with it. It has two external mini-SAS ports. One of which is now connected to an HP 1760 LTO-4 drive and the other can connect up to 4 eSATA devices via a HighPoint mini-SAS to eSATA fan-out cable. It works perfect. I've only found one compatibility issue thus far, and that's with my CalDigit S2VR eSATA RAID. It works great, but for some reason I can't see the 1MB partition that holds the RAID config data. So the CalDigit management app can't switch it from RAID-0 to RAID-1 and back. Not that I do it often and I can just connect to a different system to make the change, like my Macbook Pro, which is what that RAID connects to 90% of the time anyway.

I guess this thread is wandering in different directions, but the above sums up my thinking on a good solution for LTO-4 SAS on the Mac Pro.
 
I talked to Enhance Technologies today and they recommend the LSISAS3801E card over the ATTO R380 for their UltraStor JS JBOD... stating that the LSI supports Wide Port and the ATTO does not. Any opinions on this? I'm just wondering if going with a card without an onboard RAID would pose much problems for my workflow. I'm on a Mac Pro 8 core 2.93GHz... would my Mac have enough CPU overhead to support the cards functions say while using REDRushes? I think while using the REDRocket it wouldn't pose a problem due to the GPU offloading.
 
Wide Port SAS, or Connectivity Compatibility issue???

Wide Port SAS, or Connectivity Compatibility issue???

I talked to Enhance Technologies today and they recommend the LSISAS3801E card over the ATTO R380 for their UltraStor JS JBOD... stating that the LSI supports Wide Port and the ATTO does not. Any opinions on this? I'm just wondering if going with a card without an onboard RAID would pose much problems for my workflow. I'm on a Mac Pro 8 core 2.93GHz... would my Mac have enough CPU overhead to support the cards functions say while using REDRushes? I think while using the REDRocket it wouldn't pose a problem due to the GPU offloading.

Hi Andrae,

I know that the ATTO cards will support any form of "Wide Port" aggregated connectivity, so I'm not quite sure what the ET rep is taking about. It's all about how the SAS channels are run from the HBA to the connected device. Both the ATTO and LSI cards use the SFF-8088 connector on the HBA's, so you simply need an SFF-8088 to SFF-8470 (some refer to this connector as Infiniband) cable to connect to the Enhance Technologies JBOD.

Having said that, I am aware that there were some compatibility issues with the ET JBOD enclosures and the ATTO HBA's, but everyone I know at ATTO seems to think those issues were resolved a while back.

To whether having RAID on the HBA (hardware based) versus just using the disks as a JBOD, by implementing the disks as a RAID array using ATTO's RAID methodologies will give you a very high speed I/O capability that you won't see with separate spindles in a JBOD arrangement.

To your workflow speed, GPU offloading may assist in the actual data manipulation, but the actual disk I/O is going to be strictly balanced between your host and the I/O HBA, so regardless of the rendering boost the GPU might provide, your bottleneck is going to be your disk I/O. Faster disk I/O is gong to translate to a much more cmfortable workflow for the long haul.

HTH,
Tim
 
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