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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Re-grade your footage...

Thanks Graeme,

I think I understand a bit more now. So Redgamma could be useful to shoot with if you need to push your mids higher (for example in darker scenes) - but with Rec709 you may have a tendency to increase the sensitivity or overexpose based on what the viewfinder is displaying (when there is no need to).

thanks again
 
REC709 curve, as is, has a limited DR, whereas REDGamma was designed to have an extended DR, and to look good, and to be a great grading starting point. However, every image is different and there can never be one perfect curve for everything (not that it stopped us trying to find the optimum, which we think REDGamma is).

REDGamma is great because it very smoothly deals with image highlights, and in combination with FLUT allows you to get a very smooth highlight roll-off.

So REDGamma always fine to shoot with - and if shot with, will give great images in post.

Graeme
 
I see. I guess the test will be for me to shoot RedGamma, and then process RedGamma to draw a better conclusion.

That leads me to ask : With Redgamma is there more of a chance that you may underexpose? In my example if the skin tones do look a bit bleached, I might have dialed the exposure back a little. However using a different gamma curve the skin tones were not actually bleached?

Or is that the whole point, people have been overexposing Red footage and RedGamma aims to correct that by pushing the mids and a little safety net built into the roll off?
 
Well, I have seen some very over-exposed footage that should not be. The whole goal of REDgamma and the new exposure tools is to guide your exposure towards an optimum.

Graeme
 
Since I am a prospective buyer and not an owner quite yet, exactly which of these elements (REDgamma, REDcolor, REDspace, FLUT,) that are being mentioned are in-camera technologies and which are post-processing technologies?

I was reading all the way down thinking this is all for maximum flexibility after the shoot is over and out but Graeme is talking about REDgamma helping achieve a perfect exposure (aka in-camera)?

(If there is a resource somewhere I could be pointed to that would be great, no reason to write a page-long reply if it's been covered elsewhere thank you ;)
 
Eisen Feuer said:
Since I am a prospective buyer and not an owner quite yet, exactly which of these elements (REDgamma, REDcolor, REDspace, FLUT™,) that are being mentioned are in-camera technologies and which are post-processing technologies?

I was reading all the way down thinking this is all for maximum flexibility after the shoot is over and out but Graeme is talking about REDgamma helping achieve a perfect exposure (aka in-camera)?

(If there is a resource somewhere I could be pointed to that would be great, no reason to write a page-long reply if it's been covered elsewhere thank you ;)
Click to expand...

Think REDgamma, REDcolor, and FLUT going forward. There are valuable both in camera (new builds for M sensor coming) and in post. Any more detailed description can be posted by someone else. We have touched on this quite a bit.

Jim
 
Milk Girls: Regraded

Milk Girls: Regraded

Any chance of a repost of the Milk Girls using the new color science?
 

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I'm wondering if denoise is really working on RedcineX.

I did this test developing some old footage (shot with build 18, I think) with both REDcine 20 (CameraRGB, REC709, a curve applied for lifting exposure and denoise to max) and REDcine-X 104 ( (REDgamma, REDcolor, FLUT for lifting exposure and denoise to max).

I took the 16bit TIF full-res snapshots to Photoshop and lifted levels to see the noise characteristics.

The result shows clearly more color noise and less detail (look at the roofs) on the REDcine X version. Since I have to develop a lot of footage shortly I would like to know if that's something that's going to be adressed.

pruebabuilds.jpg
 
Álex Montoya said:
I'm wondering if denoise is really working on RedcineX.

I did this test developing some old footage (shot with build 18, I think) with both REDcine 20 (CameraRGB, REC709, a curve applied for lifting exposure and denoise to max) and REDcine-X 104 ( (REDgamma, REDcolor, FLUT™™ for lifting exposure and denoise to max).

I took the 16bit TIF full-res snapshots to Photoshop and lifted levels to see the noise characteristics.

The result shows clearly more color noise and less detail (look at the roofs) on the REDcine X version. Since I have to develop a lot of footage shortly I would like to know if that's something that's going to be adressed.

pruebabuilds.jpg
Click to expand...

Are you sure you didn't mix the REDCINEs ? It looks like it is the other way around. Actually i would even bet some money on it! :drool5:
 
I'm quite sure, thanks.

My guess is that REDcineX is designed to work with the MX sensor and that it doesn't use channel mixing as REDcine 20 allegedly used to reduce noise in the blue channel.

Color is more real with REDcineX but for underexposed Mysterium footage it may be better to use REDcine 20.

Am I very off track with my assumptions? I'm just asking to take an educated decision.
 
Just to let everyone know, that the Color plugin with the new color science (NCS) has been posted to the Apple workflow forum. Currently limited by the fact that Apple need to do the GUI bits to add in the requisite number of sliders for the new options and more control.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=41389

Alex, your example looks quite worrying, did you see any other examples where the old color science was better than the new? The new Color plugin has no way to switch between the old and new color science, making grading a more tedious reinstall and test...
 
I'm using 'NR on' in Redcine and NR on 6 on REDcineX 101. Anyway I don't see luma NR in any of both images.

In my sample of reply #28 I used the same REDcine X, one with CameraRGB and REC709 and curves and the other one with REDcolor REDgamma and FLUT.

Has anyone tried to recreate what I'm saying?
 
I am not able to get the denoise slider to work in RedcineX 104 or 101 for that matter. I thought it might not be enabled yet. It's working for you?
 
After some tests I've discovered that the detail controls do work only when I have my Red Rocket turned off but not when on. Anyone have any info on this?
 
I've been playing with some low-light footage in Clipfinder (identical to redalert with the added option to switch from old to new color science at will), and Redcine-X build 104. I've done nothing to the grade (no curves to make it pretty etc), the ISO is 500 and all other settings are identical (except I played with the OLPF (clipfinder) and sharpening (RCX) - low OLPF / sharpening of 1 in RCX was better on the specular highlight on the fingernail, you can guess which had low vs. high sharpening). I've tried not to push too far, keeping within what would be realistic. Noise reduction is maximum in both clipfinder and RCX.

At +2 exposure, I see somewhat more chroma noise in the Redcine-X frame (row 2 column 2) than the Clipfinder one (row 1 column 2). Not much difference between +2 exposure and +2 FLUT (not surprising due to where the curve would show a benefit for FLUT, though I see more noise with the FLUT version).

The Redcolor/Redgamma obviously is a bit flatter compared to Redspace. The important thing about Redgamma is seeing how the histogram behaves, you really have much better pixel value distribution (Redspace is a poor grading gamma anyway). This really makes a difference in the new Color plugin.

2rxzhqc.jpg


The noise reduction is doing something in Redcine-X - look at the histogram as it kicks in, I see blue channel highlight peak shift, but it is very subtle on the image itself. Perhaps the slightly higher chroma noise in redcine-X is the less aggresive chroma noise removal. I think chroma noise removal should be more aggresive than it is (one more step added), there is only so much one can do to crush the blue pox in underexposed tungsten footage...

Here is the old color science at +2exp Redspace/Redspace, just to remind us how much better things are!!!:
2qns5dw.jpg
 
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