Raven vs Scarlet Dragon?

[Donnie King]

The new Raven camera looks like great for the future of Red. I'm an owner of a Scarlet Dragon and can't help but ask this question looking at the specs of the Raven. Does anyone think red will release an update to shoot higher frame rates at 4k for the Scarlet Dragon. Just wishful thinking, I know they can't please everybody but that would be nice! :001_smile:

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I have no idea, and I doubt anyone outside of RED does. But Jarred did promise some firmware at the end of October that cuts boot times in half. Not a big deal but clearly they are still wringing some capabilities out of existing tech. You never know.

Personally, I am going to sit tight and enjoy my Scarlet D and just watch things unfold.

 

[sam karr]

I think Scarlet Dragon max data rate is 72MB/s. The limitation comes from here. I guess we can have 4K at a higher framerate and higher compression but 13:1 is already very compressed, more would be too much maybe. But 5k @16:1 is nice and not too noisy. Maybe we can have 60fps @5KFF and 18:1. It's representing 71MB/s.

 

[Brian Merlen]

well since dragon had an upgrade plan and weapon and raven are new lines entirely I'm sure there is some plan at work for all the DSMC 1 style bodies still in rotation...

 

[Hugh Scully]

In many ways the Scarlet Dragon has the edge on the Raven especially for what I'm doing. No point laying it out, I've said it and so have others today. I'm glad I went for the Scarlet Dragon. I freakin' love this rig. I don't think there's any vs. here at all. They're very different cameras, from different lines, in what is becoming a very broad set of offerings. What's good for RED is good for Scarlet Dragon's the way I see it. We keep getting stuff, firmware updates, new OLPFs, it's still in the lineup.

I feel like my SD just went to classic status. Nothing to sweat here. Benefits will accrue. The Dude abides.

 

[sam karr]

ha.. its like ive said in the past.. scarlet users aren't interested in slo-mo , 27fps would be the perfect for 99.9% of them

well im glad my epic dragon can do 30fps more than the raven @ 4k.. shame ill never get a new sensor in it again without going through the $20k weapon upgrade so i can benefit from resolution i don't need, prores i dont need, and auto-blackshading epic dragon should have.. kinda hurts doing the dragon upgrade, then a week after your camera returns all the talk is of weapon..

Well in fact Brent confirmed Raven can do 150fps @4KWS.
I'm a scarlet owner and I'm interested in slow motion.
I'm not interested in super high frame rates though. Arricam, Arriflex and other main film cameras can shoot 48/60/75fps. If that's enough for all the great directors who used them that's enough for me I guess. The Scarlet Dragon is the closest Red tool to all these classical cameras. S35, same framerates, nothing too overkill. Just what any cinematographer needs. That's why I don't see Red abandonning it.

 

[sam karr]

This is from Jarred today: "Epic has a path forward into the new form factor, Scarlet will see a path forward to the new form factor, then there will be a new sensor in a few years, and then a few years after that the cycle repeats all over again. ". I guess we will get a Raven S35 with an upgrade program in a near future. That's great news.

 

[Dean Butler]

Yeah thats what I'm waiting to see. Or i'll get in on raven after release

 

[Akin A]

This is from Jarred today: "Epic has a path forward into the new form factor, Scarlet will see a path forward to the new form factor, then there will be a new sensor in a few years, and then a few years after that the cycle repeats all over again. ". I guess we will get a Raven S35 with an upgrade program in a near future. That's great news.

If "path" means "a trade-in option," then Scarlet Dragon always had a path to Weapon. I don't think that's news. Maybe you're misinterpreting Jarred.

Anyway, if I didn't have Epic Dragon and was choosing between the SD and Raven, that would be tough. I reframe a lot to create motion when I operate solo and film myself. And 6K stills is nice. But that 4K FF 3:1 24fps and 4K WS 150fps at a low cost would be so tempting. I would need more time to think.

 

[sam karr]

If "path" means "a trade-in option," then Scarlet Dragon always had a path to Weapon. I don't think that's news. Maybe you're misinterpreting Jarred.

Yes. But Jarred didn't say "scarlet HAS or HAD a path", he said "Scarlet WILL see a path forward to the new form factor". I think it's pretty clear.

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

Yes. But Jarred didn't say "scarlet HAS or HAD a path", he said "Scarlet WILL see a path forward to the new form factor". I think it's pretty clear.

The line up next year would be

Raven, DSMC² Scarlet, Weapon.

Should we start taking bets on name ?

The name Raven is badass in every langages (not llike Weapon difficult to pronounce right for some people), I hope Scarlet new body name will be as cool.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

5k Scarlet Raven anyone? @@

 

[sam karr]

The line up next year would be

Raven, DSMC² Scarlet, Weapon.

Should we start taking bets on name ?

The name Raven is badass in every langages (not llike Weapon difficult to pronounce right for some people), I hope Scarlet new body name will be as cool.

I guess something between a raven and a dragon. Maybe a falcon, a condor or a phenix.

 

[Gene Sung]

The line up next year would be

Raven, DSMC² Scarlet, Weapon.

Should we start taking bets on name ?

The name Raven is badass in every langages (not llike Weapon difficult to pronounce right for some people), I hope Scarlet new body name will be as cool.

As someone mentioned, Red Phoenix has a nice ring. Phoenix is a bird, but mystical like a Dragon.

Jarred just mentioned in another thread there will be a Weapon "Scarlet." I bet they will announce at NAB and it will be available at the end of 2016, then everyone will have their Super 35mm with removable mount. In the meantime, I'm just going to enjoy the Raven, learn the Red system really well (one of the main reasons I'm buying Raven), then sell or upgrade to the "Phoenix" when it's ready.

I mean, the Raven body is only $6K, there's not much to loose at all.

I'm so psyched on the Raven! Can't fly in fast enough.

 

[Vincent Follézou]

With lot of patience you can build a good used Scarlet kit for less than a Raven. You will not have the slow-motion but it really depend of what you looking for, and your kind of shooting style.

 

[Hugh Scully]

With lot of patience you can build a good used Scarlet kit for less than a Raven. You will not have the slow-motion but it really depend of what you looking for, and your kind of shooting style.

Wait a minute! How is it possible to build a Scarlet Dragon (in the subject line) for less than $10K, the price of the Raven? I've got a lot of patience which I would be happy to employ to that end.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

With lot of patience you can build a good used Scarlet kit for less than a Raven. You will not have the slow-motion but it really depend of what you looking for, and your kind of shooting style.

Wait a minute! How is it possible to build a Scarlet Dragon (in the subject line) for less than $10K, the price of the Raven? I've got a lot of patience which I would be happy to employ to that end.

See above...it's about being patient to find somebody selling a used kit for a sub-RAVEN kit price. There will always be somebody looking to take a loss on a sale just to avoid a bigger loss later. Obviously RED cannot afford to be that somebody for every camera they sell.

 

[Hugh Scully]

See above...it's about being patient to find somebody selling a used kit for a sub-RAVEN kit price. There will always be somebody looking to take a loss on a sale just to avoid a bigger loss later. Obviously RED cannot afford to be that somebody for every camera they sell.

Don't hold your breath. Show me. A new SD costs $24K. I know. I've never seen a used SD kit going for less than $19K. MX, maybe, Dragon... you would need to be REALLY patient.

 

[Akin A]

Don't hold your breath. Show me. A new SD costs $24K. I know. I've never seen them going for less than $19K.

He was referring to Scarlet MX used.

 

[Hugh Scully]

Really? Yeah, that's possible. I didn't see that. Since the subject is Raven Vs. Scarlet Dragon, I figured he meant SD. Well then, never mind!