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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Raven for Wedding Films

It seems to be a badge of shame amongst the RED crowd to say you shoot wedding films. Wedding films are my primary income and I'm making pretty good money doing it. I plan on using my S-W in conjunction with my a7sII on the Ronin. I'll probably capture ceremony ProRes 2k only to save card space, but having the flexibility of RAW to cover over stupid mistakes like not dialing in the right color temperature is invaluable. These cameras are so light and nimble, I don't see why you wouldn't use it for run-n-gun stuff?
Well, if that's the case, it's misguided. I try to be involved with at least one wedding a year either as primary shooter or second operator. I've worked on major Hollywood productions, high end commercials, etc. I've never bought the wedding cinematographer as a lower grade skill set. In fact, the reason I do them is because they challenge me the most. I know in narrative, you get a second take most of the time, same for commercials. Weddings, quite often you have one chance to get the shot - no excuses. You mess up, it can really cost you. So it keeps me on my toes, teaches me how to think under pressure, develop skills that can later translate to being better on other types of productions.

I have shot a RED One for a wedding in 95 degree heat, shoulder mounted some of the time. It was back a few years ago, and it was a way to test a shoulder rig I had at the time. It was Prince Edward Island and although it was for friend of a friend kind of thing, still a lot of pressure. It was challenging, I didn't get every shot I wanted to, and some of it was just plain awful filmmaking on my part. But I learned some things about the camera and about myself. I've shot other weddings where RED Cams were used as well. It can be done, but there's no doubt it can be more challenging than other cameras in certain situations. But like any camera, you develop techniques to work around camera limitations and you embrace the camera strengths so those money shots are just beautiful.

Steve, you have already received some good advice about the batteries and lenses. Power and media would be my number one areas of focus. Have enough to do a day and a half and you will be covered in case of battery failures, media failures, etc.

Where RED cameras excel when receiving proper light levels, I would put a lot of emphasis on lighting. Scope out existing lighting, see how it can work for you and how you can avoid lighting that will work against you. Sometimes you will have no choice and action will unfold where it is. For areas where you think something special will happen, I would consider some augmented lighting. Doesn't have to be some big lighting rig, but maybe there's a shot that would look amazing with some nice backlight and it will feed the sensor. If you can get some of that stuff happening, the RED will really shine. Obviously lenses come into play too, but you are already using the beautiful Leica R's so you have yourself covered there.

Audio is big too. You probably already have this covered, but it's an area that can always be improved. New technology like wireless transmitters with built in recorders can be very useful. It pays off in the end, but adds more complexity to shoots, especially if you have limited crew.

Also seems like you have stabilization under control. I'm not a huge fan of every shot needing a Ronin or drone, but sprinkling them in there works well. Brings energy, fluidity, etc.

Ultimately it comes down to how you want to shoot. If the REDs deliver the images you want, why fight it? Go for it, like you're doing. If it turns out they are hurting your films, then you sell them and move on. But something tells me you love the image you have seen from them and you will make them work for your productions.

So far, I haven't done a wedding yet this year. I feel out of sorts a bit having not done one in a while. I need to find someone getting married and lobby them to let me shoot it. :-)

Best of luck and look forward to the films!
 
thanks man, yeah I have a very extensive audio background, I actually have owned several commercial studios and have been hired to build many more, right now I use a simple sennhieser shotgun for candid stuff and have a lectrasonic (on the advise of this board) to take line level and lav (dpa) signal. Still have to figure out the what it will land on though, right now I have a pix xlr, probably have to get a SD 422 or something, but that is why I am staring now, so I am ready for late 2017 early 2018

as far as lighting, it is great that most of the photographers that I deal with look at lighting first before composition, if I was dealing with budget photgraphers it would be a different story, but because these vendors have the same ideals, it should be a perfect marriage

and I did download some raven files to mess with along with the plug in for fcpx
 
Hey Mate

I can't speak for the Raven but the world of Red for me means batteries, redmags and data. I too would recommend hiring a Red to try and see what the data management is like as well as how quickly cards will fill. All of my advice is based on a Raven having some similarities to an Epic Dragon so I hope this helps.

One thing to note is that shooting at lower sizes is actually a sensor crop rather than a rescaling of the images so I always seem to want to shoot at the highest sizes even when there's no need to. I'll put up with the amount of data but working at a Post house I'm pretty familiar with data.

I also found DSLR to Red operation not too massive a leap but it may impact on all your accessories as things like rigs and rails etc need to fit the Red's form. I haven't shot weddings but I have shot many doco-style projects which are similar in many ways. The parts to be mindful of are audio into the camera (can be quite tricky for a run and gun setup) and battery life. I reckon a rental will show you a lot about both of those.

One thing that may cause an issue is start up time. If you find that there are many moments where you suddenly have a shot you need to get at the drop of a hat then the Red may cause a few concerns. Like any tool I reckon you can find ways to deal with it but I have missed shots because of the start up time. Having said that I was aware of the issue so I approach my jobs in a way that it doesn't matter and I'm not sure what the Raven is like on this issue.

After a couple of years of Red I do agree that it's perfect for the more controlled, cinematic shoots (films, music vids etc) but I don't think that precludes your needs. It's just a camera you have to think about more and you can create a good run and gun setup for it but I reckon you'll have to learn to work with the limitations in order to make it work perfectly for you.

I hope some of that helps mate and good luck.

Rich
 
I own a RED, a Sony, a Canon and two GH4. And I don't make my RED the obvious choice for every project.
It's for more controlled environment. Yes, I use RED for events (not weddings btw), BUT only when we are a big crew. Why? Because with RED you need time. Or a larger crew. With a GH4 you can shoot solo easily. With RED, you can, but takes more time.

You need more time when you switch, for example, from handheld to ronin: you have several modules to mount/detach every time like monitor, pogo cables, handles, and so on.
You need time to switch batteries more often. You need more time to offload footage. Or to boot the camera, it takes 10/15 seconds: enough to lose a crucial moment.
Even changing settings like ISO or shutter speed isn't as quick as with a GH4. More time spent dealing with the camera is less time spent focusing on shooting. C300, FS7 and GH4 are the cameras that i pick up for shooting events.

https://fstoppers.com/video/why-i-sold-my-red-and-downgraded-c100-8440

A little old, but still interesting article. I recognize 100% of me in it (but luckily I can afford to keep all my cameras).
Now rent a couple of REDs and shoot an event with them. Image quality will be better for sure, but try to judge the quality of content: is it richer now or poorer?
 
Thanks guys

Here is a package I put together, think it makes more sense, basically one on the go/gimbal rig and one tripod rig with main audio going into it

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[TD="class: span5, bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]RED RAVEN BRAIN DepositSKU: RVN-BRN-DEP

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[TD="class: span5"]RED MINI-MAG - 512GBSKU: 750-0078

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[TD="class: span2 item-available_message"]In Stock[/TD]
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[TD="class: currency item-price span1"]$2,450.00[/TD]
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[TD="class: span5, bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]DSMC2 Top HandleSKU: 720-0035

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[TD="class: currency item-price span1, bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]$550.00[/TD]
[TD="class: span1 item-total currency, bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]$1,100.00[/TD]
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[TD="class: span5"]REDVOLT XL (2-Pack)SKU: 740-0028

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[TD="class: span5, bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]DSMC2 REDVOLT ExpanderSKU: 720-0040

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[TD="class: span5"]DSMC2 V-Lock I/O ExpanderSKU: 720-0045

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[TD="class: currency item-price span1"]$1,900.00[/TD]
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[TD="class: span5, bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]RED BRICK (6-Pack)SKU: 740-0003

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[TD="class: span5"]RED BRICK ChargerSKU: 740-0006

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[TD="class: span5, bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]DSMC2 RED Touch 4.7" LCDSKU: 730-0019

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Maybe get the Jetpack if you're gonna do Ronin work? Then get the DJI battery distributor + cable to power RED from Ronin battery - it takes the v-mount battery off the gimbal = saves weight.
 
Guys/Girls

Next year is filling up fast and I am making plans to upgrade our gear from gh4/pix e5 rigs to ravens...
i love my Epic and will probably keep it for ever, no matter what, but Red IS a cinema camera, and it comes with the set of conditions that need to be met in order not to fail your expectations;
I am very experienced wedding film shooter , and i shot a few weddings on three Reds trying to 'surprise' industry and clients, but i will never do that again:), unless clients will ask, and generously pay for that;
Switching from GH4 and having no previous experience of shooting on Red might be a shocker for your team, especially in a sense of weight, power and media consumption.
i would strongly recommend you to take a closer look at 1DX mkii before you make a move; it is a perfect camera to shoot a wedding, it delivers stunning IQ, has fast and reliable AF, and power management is close to excellent, not as good as on GH4 though:)
best.
 
Maybe get the Jetpack if you're gonna do Ronin work? Then get the DJI battery distributor + cable to power RED from Ronin battery - it takes the v-mount battery off the gimbal = saves weight.

It does but it also means that your camera goes down every time you need to swap ronin battery.
To me it´s better to get the Vlock module and then when red starts to sell their slim v locks, then use one of those on camera together with the ronin power distort box. Then you can keep camera running full time and hot swap and also use the gimbal reset button without having the loss of power to focus motors, camera etc.
 
So funny to see this. I'm in line for the Scarlet-w and shoot weddings/sweet 16s with GH4(s) as one of my income streams. I also work with tons of RED footage for my corporate clients as my DP shoots on an Epic Dragon.

I've been debating whether the investment in the camera will help my event business. Knowing the challenges I face over and over, and knowing the way a RED works, I go back and forth. Better imagery and Raw yes. But bigger pain in the ass both on set and in post - yes again.

Not sure if it helps, but my final conclusion was simple - Story trumps imagery every time, especially in event videography. There is no way a client is going to choose you for your camera package. I'm in the same market. They don't care. They just watch your work, and if it moves them, they respond accordingly.

So while I would like to rationalize the RED will help my event business, the truth is, its really built to push the boundaries of my narrative/corporate capabilities. No matter what camera I'm rocking, the only thing going to take my events to the next level is me.

weddings: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-tWxLqzKuZJsfiKGaRoOioSCWn61-7-w

Sweet 16s: https://vimeo.com/album/3333456
 
Maybe it's a different clientele your working with, I had 3 brides ask me this weekend about my gear. These are for 6 figure weddings though
 
It does but it also means that your camera goes down every time you need to swap ronin battery.
To me it´s better to get the Vlock module and then when red starts to sell their slim v locks, then use one of those on camera together with the ronin power distort box. Then you can keep camera running full time and hot swap and also use the gimbal reset button without having the loss of power to focus motors, camera etc.

I agree, but those RedVolt V's will only run 30-40 mins according to RED staff and they're not released for a little while yet - so this is the best option. The Raven boots in like 15 seconds. So no biggie for me. Plus Ronin batteries are fairly cheap..
 
These are for 6 figure weddings though
yeah, i wish 6 figure wedding video budget, but those are the most stingy ones :)
they ask you about your gear because this question is in the guide "How to choose your wedding videographer" but they don's know shit about the gear,
In order of importance: your personality, your work and your negotiation skills,
that's it my friend :)
 
I agree, but those RedVolt V's will only run 30-40 mins according to RED staff and they're not released for a little while yet - so this is the best option. The Raven boots in like 15 seconds. So no biggie for me. Plus Ronin batteries are fairly cheap..

The trick is to only use the red battery for hot swapping and run if the ronin battery.

For us that would solve the problem with wireless FIZ and video to reboot and need new calibration on ronin battery on off. I find it good to be able to turn of the ronin when not in use.

Also I find it far more east to have the ronin hanging in a bungie of a c stand than taking camera of the ronin and onto a tripod or shoulder rig. Better use the amor man and run around with the camera and then when doing long still standing takes have a C stand with a bungie to hang it from and control it with the remote or simply hold the handle. To take of camera and then rebalance etc is way to time consuming. Then better to have two cameras.
 
Maybe it's a different clientele your working with, I had 3 brides ask me this weekend about my gear. These are for 6 figure weddings though

Quite possibly. The only time I've had someone ask me about my gear is after I delivered a video. 6 figure weddings. Best of luck.
 
Interesting discussion. I don't shoot weddings but I can totally see the various sides here. I mean when you start getting in 6 figure wedding territory you are definitely entering the 'label' drinker crowd. And I could see them thinking they need everything at a Bentley level. But I could also see how for the poor videographer that could be a trap. I mean it is funny to think about running and gunning like that and wondering if your sensor temp is in range or is my fan getting too noisy, or am I using the right OLPF and the footage getting noisy or the color off a bit. I mean funny as in - stressful. Perhaps the trick is to have both. Have the Red around for specially shots with more control and then the other gear to nail the moments. That way they know there is a Rolls Royce in the house - while most of the heavy lifting is being done by a Lexus or similar.
 
Let me make it clear, I am not looking into red because of label. The latitude the raw files provide for grading and maybe the ocassiknal exposure mistake is what I am after. we are pretty well booked up through 2018 so The cash is there already.

The he only reason I said people asked about gear is because someone else brought it up. I had maybe 6 or so meetings this weekend, it just so happens that 3 asked what I was shooting with and in.

btw if the Raven boots in 15 seconds that is almost a minute faster than the pix e5 when cold.

i do plan to keep the gh4s for smaller weddings with lower budgets when it's only my wife and I going out. Maybe I am doing something drastically different than most are thinking, there is very little "run and gun"'situations. Most photographers set up marks for dances and speacges ect. I am really looking forward to shooting the details with red.

also we have shot maybe a dozen weddings this year and usually the lower the budget the more of a pain things can be and the more couples want
 
Quite possibly. The only time I've had someone ask me about my gear is after I delivered a video. 6 figure weddings. Best of luck.
Hey man on another note, if you are ever interested in doing some side work, I am needing someone well versed in the gh4 for second shooting, if this is something you would into email me, info@colorroomfilms.com
 
Well if the best of Red is what you seek, but within a reasonable price - I would think one of those cameras would be nice if it was a Scarlet W as the resolution pop is going to be significant - and you will see the difference immediately. Remember your 4.5 K is not full frame with Raven, so you are not downsampling to full 4K from there. Coming down to 4K from the SW 5K will be an eye opener:) Well it certainly sounds like you have the whole wedding biz figure out. Will be interesting to hear your reports from the field.
 
I don't have the wedding biz figured out, I just have a decent grip on a certain clientele. Wondering if a w isn't what I should be doing, would have to find the money somewhere lol

surprised with the level of shots being taken here.
 
I am going to go on a limb and recommend you try and locate the extra dollars and treat yourself to the SW along with the Raven. From the way you describe your goals it would be the kitty. 5K for 4K forever. Until its 8K;)
 
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