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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Raven.... Everything Just Changed.

Jeffrey Loewe said:
The question is will the Epic Dragon hold its trade in value with this new camera? Or will the Scarlet be the only camera allowed for trade-in? Because coming up with over $20 grand for the upgrade to Weapon and all the necessary new accessories is just to rich for me sadly.
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The problem is that if this future camera is a 5000-10000 upgrade for the epic owners, it will be a 15000-20000 upgrade for scarlet dragon owners again. I hope it's firstly something aimed at scarlet owners.
 
I'm speechless!
Jim, Jarred you are the greatest!
4.5K@120fps. in RAW!
Excelent for gimbal stabilization.
Star Wars Episode VII just fell to the second place on my list of expectations. :)
 
Grant Smucker said:
+1 for this! or just 5k 24 please...
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If they start competing with Scarlet and Epic Dragon, their value will be so low that more people will be more angry than those who don't get 5K on Raven. The better Raven gets the more worthless the Epic Dragon gets.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
If they start competing with Scarlet and Epic Dragon, their value will be so low that more people will be more angry than those who don't get 5K on Raven. The better Raven gets the more worthless the Epic Dragon gets.
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Too late for that. Raven is already above Scarlet-Dragon

We are referring to Scarlet-X (MX), a camera that is still selling for more than a Raven with lower specs.
 
I can't get over it... This is amazing. Think about how much of a gift this is. Christmas just came early for a lot of folks!

And this has to come at quite a price for RED.

The area for an 8K sensor can be exactly split up into 4x 4K sensors.
If you're producing 8K sensors, it just seems totally logical to have a smaller 4K brother.
The wafer yield should be better with a 4K sensor than it is with a 4.5K one. By a large margin.

Of course that would suggest that deciding on sensor yields and sizes for wafers is as simple as I make it out to be,
which it's probably not, but it seems too logical to be false ;) ... smarter guys than me could let us know.
 
Grant Smucker said:
Too late for that. Raven is already above Scarlet-Dragon

We are referring to Scarlet-X (MX), a camera that is still selling for more than a Raven with lower specs.
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But Raven doesn't exist yet.

Expect the Scarlet MX to be EOL at the exact time or a little before Raven is being delivered.
 
Clayton Taylor said:
True. Factor in rental costs for the short term?
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I wish haha. Unfortunately I don't think that works for me at this point, which is why i'm planning to move to the Raven to have lower costs. All my work pretty much requires me to have my own camera.
 
Patrick Grossien said:
Expect the Scarlet MX to be EOL at the exact time or a little before Raven is being delivered.
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All the more reason to send it off in overdrive... I mean, RED literally just increased the physical sensor size of Raven on a whim merely because Jim & Jarred had a couple drinks while working last night. It's the best time to ask about 4.5kWS/24fps for Scarlet-X...


(I'm presuming "working away in Stage 4" is RED code for "got drunk and starting brainstorming"... I could be wrong.)

(Also, the "RED code" pun was intended... obviously.)
 
Patrick Grossien said:
I can't get over it... This is amazing. Think about how much of a gift this is. Christmas just came early for a lot of folks!

And this has to come at quite a price for RED.

The area for an 8K sensor can be exactly split up into 4x 4K sensors.
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Why is there this widespread belief that RED is cutting up 8K sensors to drop into Ravens? Just because the math works nicely?

It has been mentioned time and again that Weapon/Raven uses 6K Dragon sensors in a new form factor. No need to perform surgery or re-design existing sensor assembly lines for the sake of a gateway camera. An easier sell to me is the hard work on refining a lower end ASIC to push more data from the pre-existing 6K sensor.

RED sold plenty of Dragon sensors for $9.5K and is about to buy them back at a big enough margin to support a new upgrade path. Wouldn't it make entirely too much business sense to drop all these used Dragons into Ravens over hiring a new assembly line dedicated to chopping up wafers?

This is good for you because RED doesn't have to do it and this is great for RED because they get to sell more accessories.

It's also a fine opportunity for owner-op MX folks looking to go Dragon. They get to pull a Price is Right and offer $1 more than trade in once RED sets the re-sale market. My mouth is watering at the possibility of buying a second DSMC body for less than a sensor upgrade cost 6 months ago.

Same thing happened with Scarlet, same thing will happen again in two years.
 
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Clayton Taylor said:
And now's the best time to dump a camera if you're considering making the move...
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Or not... we still don't know what the upgrade way for Scarlet D will be. Maybe it's too expensive for most. Maybe it's ok. Maybe it will be awesome.
Scarlet users are not always the ones making a huge return on their investment. And I'm talking users not rental. But who knows. RED as we just witnessed once more is always full of surprises.

I for one am hoping for a DSMC with 8K stills and 6K motion option. Just as the Scarlet is to the Epic now. Raven just became more of a DSMC camera than it was before, but sensor size means a lot to me especially because of the FoV.
I love that I can shoot stills with my Scarlet Dragon. I see it as a feature and not as a crippled version of something bigger. So the Scarlet Dragon still sits above Raven for me. I can swap the mount, I can swap the OLPF, I have a useable 5K sensor for motion and 6K for stills. That ticks a few boxes for me. Would I take more fps if I could? Sure! But as long as I don't have the money to choose a new camera whenever I want to, I'm happy with what I have.

And if that means that a possible Scarlet Dragon upgrade could be a FF35 camera with 8K @ 8-12fps and 6k @*+24fps with swappable OLPFs and mounts? Hell yeah, I'd want that over a Raven anytime!
And if that same camera could burn 120fps @*4.5K as well it's a no brainer... Probably a camera like that won't be happening or I won't be able to afford it. But hell, it would be motherfucking sexy to me!
 
Patrick Grossien said:
Or not... we still don't know what the upgrade way for Scarlet D will be. Maybe it's too expensive for most. Maybe it's ok. Maybe it will be awesome.
Scarlet users are not always the ones making a huge return on their investment. And I'm talking users not rental. But who knows. RED as we just witnessed once more is always full of surprises.

I for one am hoping for a DSMC with 8K stills and 6K motion option. Just as the Scarlet is to the Epic now. Raven just became more of a DSMC camera than it was before, but sensor size means a lot to me especially because of the FoV.
I love that I can shoot stills with my Scarlet Dragon. I see it as a feature and not as a crippled version of something bigger. So the Scarlet Dragon still sits above Raven for me. I can swap the mount, I can swap the OLPF, I have a useable 5K sensor for motion and 6K for stills. That ticks a few boxes for me. Would I take more fps if I could? Sure! But as long as I don't have the money to choose a new camera whenever I want to, I'm happy with what I have.

And if that means that a possible Scarlet Dragon upgrade could be a FF35 camera with 8K @ 8-12fps and 6k @*+24fps with swappable OLPFs and mounts? Hell yeah, I'd want that over a Raven anytime!
And if that same camera could burn 120fps @*4.5K as well it's a no brainer... Probably a camera like that won't be happening or I won't be able to afford it. But hell, it would be motherfucking sexy to me!
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You realize the upgrade for the CF weapon to get 8K is $20 grand on top of what the CF costs already? the MG Weapon price is going to be more than that and hasn't even been announced yet.

I'd be shocked to see any Scarlet successor have an 8K stills option within the next two years costing less then the Weapon to 8K upgrade costs already... Then again it's RED. Just saying I wouldn't expect 8K is all.
 
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