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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

R3D versus ProRes...

Dave Draper

Dave Draper

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Size and quality in mind, which REDCODE compression ratios are comparable to which ProRes settings?
 
I would say none, they are different beasts. Redcode have different results depending picture situation. You can have excellent results with 12:1 and then in other situation 1:8 isn’t good enough. Working with RAW also holds some magic in it.
 
Whenever we're asked (which is not often enough), we tell our clients that 5:1 is the "sweet spot" for cost/size/performance. I think it's fine for R3D.

Last I checked, 1 minute of Red Epic 4K R3D was about 3GB, and 1 minute of ProRes 444 4K was 5.4GB. For comparison 1 minute of uncompressed 4K 16-bit DPX is 102.4GB.
 
with the Release of the Alexa Mini LF, I do wonder does ArriRAW use a variable compression for it's codec? e.g. depending upon what the sensor is seeing, it raises or lowers the compression it uses

or do you think it's as close uncompressed as it can get always?
 
Jeffery Anderson said:
with the Release of the Alexa Mini LF, I do wonder does ArriRAW use a variable compression for it's codec? e.g. depending upon what the sensor is seeing, it raises or lowers the compression it uses

or do you think it's as close uncompressed as it can get always?
Click to expand...

Arriraw is uncompressed and always has been. Codex is now offering lossless compression (High Density Encoding, or HDE) that can be applied when copying Arriraw files external to the camera. But that is the only compressed Arriraw format.
 
Marc Wielage said:
Whenever we're asked (which is not often enough), we tell our clients that 5:1 is the "sweet spot" for cost/size/performance. I think it's fine for R3D.

Last I checked, 1 minute of Red Epic 4K R3D was about 3GB, and 1 minute of ProRes 444 4K was 5.4GB. For comparison 1 minute of uncompressed 4K 16-bit DPX is 102.4GB.
Click to expand...

The "sweet spot" also varies with capture resolution. It's something different shooting 4k 5:1 then 8K 5:1
 
M Most said:
Arriraw is uncompressed and always has been. Codex is now offering lossless compression (High Density Encoding, or HDE) that can be applied when copying Arriraw files external to the camera. But that is the only compressed Arriraw format.
Click to expand...

is RedCode already using some sort of variable bitrate/compression ratio for RedRAW that adjusts compression automatically?
 
Jeffery Anderson said:
is RedCode already using some sort of variable bitrate/compression ratio for RedRAW that adjusts compression automatically?
Click to expand...

Nobody outside Red really knows specifics about the codec. However, Redcode offers different compression levels that are identified by their compression ratio (5:1, 8:1, 10:1, etc.). There are none offered that specify variable compression ratios. So I think you can infer that Redcode is essentially a CBR codec, not VBR.
 
Marc Wielage said:
Whenever we're asked (which is not often enough), we tell our clients that 5:1 is the "sweet spot" for cost/size/performance. I think it's fine for R3D.

Last I checked, 1 minute of Red Epic 4K R3D was about 3GB, and 1 minute of ProRes 444 4K was 5.4GB. For comparison 1 minute of uncompressed 4K 16-bit DPX is 102.4GB.
Click to expand...


But you never shoot 4k R3D for a 4k delivery without comprominsing the picture quality. My sweet spot for 5.5 or 6k is compression 8:1 (sometimes up to 12:1 but rarely at 6:1). I do allways finish in 4k.

Pat
 
M Most said:
Nobody outside Red really knows specifics about the codec. However, Redcode offers different compression levels that are identified by their compression ratio (5:1, 8:1, 10:1, etc.). There are none offered that specify variable compression ratios. So I think you can infer that Redcode is essentially a CBR codec, not VBR.
Click to expand...

yeah, by offer different ratios 3:1-18:1 they allow you adjust the CBR

would it make sense to have an optimized setting where it records 3:1 and adjusts automatically dependent upon the need of the video... something with a very busy or dark image would have 3:1 compression and something well lit and very little texture with raise the compression to 8:1?
 
Try for yourself. I had to do some long form recording in low light. The sort of environment which would show issues with noise and so on. So i compared 8K RAW at various ratios with 4K ProRes (and DNxHR) and 2K as well. I would be going through a pipeline with noise reduction and every tool i could summon because of light issues.

Honestly there was so little in it in my particular use case.

If you are in Resolve and you're doing RWG/LogG10 i think you can massage R3D a bit better. Certainly i find that doing RAW adjustments for exposure and white balance is higher quality than PR. But if you are delivering HD then in reality there's not much between R3D & ProRes in terms of quality.

I ended up shooting 10:1. Compared to 5:1 yes there is some difference but that's pixel peeping. By the time it gets to 2K you really can't see that. I presume that if you're shooting lots of small moving detail then it may show more but i was very surprised how 10:1 held up.

cheers
Paul
 
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