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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Questions about Weapon Dragon and Prores

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Paulius Kontijevas

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Epic Dragon owner for 2 years and am thinking of upgrading to Weapon. Main reasons are weight and prores.

My questions are (and I apologize if these questions are redundant, I'm not reading this forum as much as I should):

1. When shooting prores what do you shoot in? Can you shoot Redlogfilm providing a flatter image or do you have to put a look on it like RG4 and that's what you get? And yes, I realize you can write both at Raw and Prores at the same time.

2. I had a Weapon Dragon as a Bcam and the camera wasn't able to have a top handle on it because the handle was too long and was in the way of the Vlock/Goldmount battery (can't remember which, but seemed that either would be in the way). My question would be: Would a WC Easy Top solve that problem? It's hard to tell from the pictures, but the video on WC site looks like it all aligns well and the battery hangs wau below the handle. I'm a big Easyrig fan so the handle is very important to me.

Thank you for your insight and I'd love to see some rig pictures posted as I get much better insights visually.

-Paulius
 
1. Yes you can shoot in RLF if recording to proxies.

2. This a well documented issue with the Weapon design. Luckily, there are several threads on this subject already on reduser. If you google it, it should pop up.

And I'm still happily shooting on my Epic Dragon so unfortunately I don't have any weapon setup pics, but there are threads for this as well.

Best of luck!
 
My understanding is RLF is default for prores recordings, but to me the real question is can the prores have LUTs baked in or at least RG4? Never seemed to get a straight answer on this and it didn't seem to be possible last time I tried. At some point Phil Holland gave me a cryptic answer about it that made it sound like it might somehow be possible but maybe was just to say that it may be possible in a future firmware.

Prores is pretty critical for certain kinds of jobs and it's great to have it but it's also to have control over the color on the prores files, but it's unclear to me if any of this is currently possible or will be in the future. With LUT capabilities one could potentially deliver files that match whatever specs are needed (LUTs could convert to match other cameras for multicams or bake a look for short post deadlines or allow for immediate dailies deliveries without long transcodes etc)
 
You cannot bake in a 3rd party 3D lut to prores as of now. You can however bake in any of red's looks/gammas
 
Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
My understanding is RLF is default for prores recordings, but to me the real question is can the prores have LUTs baked in or at least RG4? Never seemed to get a straight answer on this and it didn't seem to be possible last time I tried. At some point Phil Holland gave me a cryptic answer about it that made it sound like it might somehow be possible but maybe was just to say that it may be possible in a future firmware.

Prores is pretty critical for certain kinds of jobs and it's great to have it but it's also to have control over the color on the prores files, but it's unclear to me if any of this is currently possible or will be in the future. With LUT capabilities one could potentially deliver files that match whatever specs are needed (LUTs could convert to match other cameras for multicams or bake a look for short post deadlines or allow for immediate dailies deliveries without long transcodes etc)
Click to expand...

The prores actually defaults to whatever you're R3d is recording. You can however change it to record RLF regardless of R3d grading.
 
Is it possible to get the in camera a luts to bite on the prores files and also in playback?
 
Besides ease of delivery and more efficient editing w/ProRes, what are you losing in terms of dynamic range and flexibility in grading? I read a bit about ProRes not having as much DR.

Can you deliver a graded ProRes 4k image w/a LUT applied in-cam and then also record the RED raw flat image? How does that affect storage? Keeping my FS7 but considering adding an Epic-W and a bit lost in terms of how much storage I'll need to purchase. DIT'ing a 128GB XQD is obviously going to go a lot faster than a 1TB mini-mag!

Sorry if this question has been covered 100x already. All I can do to keep up w/the update thread.
 
Travis Wears said:
Besides ease of delivery and more efficient editing w/ProRes, what are you losing in terms of dynamic range and flexibility in grading? I read a bit about ProRes not having as much DR.

Can you deliver a graded ProRes 4k image w/a LUT applied in-cam and then also record the RED raw flat image? How does that affect storage? Keeping my FS7 but considering adding an Epic-W and a bit lost in terms of how much storage I'll need to purchase. DIT'ing a 128GB XQD is obviously going to go a lot faster than a 1TB mini-mag!

Sorry if this question has been covered 100x already. All I can do to keep up w/the update thread.
Click to expand...

It depends, It does not affect storage much if you for example record high quality raw r3d´s and then a little prores 422 2k on the side. the prores file is not adding much weight in such case. However if you record 4k prores of best quality then sure your r3d needs to be of lowe rqulaity then if it comes with a 2k 422 on the side. But so far I have not been able to get all the luts and grades on those files in camera.

What I get now per clip is a folder with:
A r3d with meta data.
A prores file.
A LUT if it was used.

All good but I would love to have that proxy prores file affected by that lut so I don't have to process it on for editorial. Simply we only use the prores files for offline editing as we do all grading and finishing on other setups than the editing and frankly of that I really like having the r3d´s they are not much heavier and they got it all, raw with possibility to be sampled in lower resolutions etc. To me r3d´s are the perfect files for finishing and grading.... prores are not in that category. Prores on the other hand is great for editing and sketch work.
 
I would like to repeat Bjorn's question and ask if it is possible to have the assigned viewing LUT apply to playback in camera? Its hard to have the LUT on the monitoring and then have boring old Redlog appear on any requested playbacks.
 
Yes if your playing back r3d's you can playback a Red gamma
 
Jake,

Yes I understand the R3D will playback with Red's applied gammas but can I playback when I choose to apply a creative LUT. The LUT is visible on live monitoring but I can't get it to show on playback.
 
If you have an OMOD I'm pretty sure you can have LUTs on the playback. So that's one more plus for an OMOD with the LUT engine (that and wireless LUT uploads).

http://OMod.io
 
Tom Gleeson said:
Jake,

Yes I understand the R3D will playback with Red's applied gammas but can I playback when I choose to apply a creative LUT. The LUT is visible on live monitoring but I can't get it to show on playback.
Click to expand...

You are correct, for this reason I have a 3D lut i added into my Flanders monitor to use for playback, same one I use in camera
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
If you have an OMOD I'm pretty sure you can have LUTs on the playback. So that's one more plus for an OMOD with the LUT engine (that and wireless LUT uploads).

http://OMod.io
Click to expand...

I really wish the Weapon could apply the LUT to ProRes for offline purposes and could apply a LUT to playback. Weapon was advertised to have LUT support but the functionality is very limited and the implementation is overly complicated and confusing in the menus. Doesn't seem right to have to buy another piece of hardware to get practical functionality out of the LUT feature. Hopefully this will be addressed in future firmware, especially on the Helium Weapon.
 
Eric,

I agree that the LUT support is incomplete. I am running the CF Weapon with the Redvolt Expander so I have all the toys yet it I can't do a playback with the LUT? I can apply a LUT at the monitor end but from a top end cinema camera this feature should be enabled.
 
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