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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Question for post production color grading professionals.

Marc " have two or three additional systems operating as a hub" what sort of cost effective system would you have? If you have to go windows PC path what would be your ideal (cost effective) system configuration?
Thanks.
 
M.Most .. what would be your optimum system configuration/ setup for resolve based windows pc including grading monitor and reference monitor. I read a lot about Panasonic vt50 series as clients monitor.
Thanks
 
M.Most .. what would be your optimum system configuration/ setup for resolve based windows pc including grading monitor and reference monitor. I read a lot about Panasonic vt50 series as clients monitor.
Thanks

I haven't and likely wouldn't use Resolve on a Windows PC. And Panasonic has announced that they are going to cease manufacture of plasma monitors. So I don't consider that a great choice going forward, either.

My choices have little to no relevance to anybody else's particular situation. But at this point in time, I prefer Colorfront systems for dailies, I like Resolve on Linux or a Mac for final grading (although personally I prefer Baselight), and either a DLP Cinema projector, a Dolby monitor, or a Sony OLED monitor. And as Marc pointed out, those particular things are only a small part of the overall equipment picture, with storage being far more significant in terms of overall performance. But I'm guessing that's not typical of most people here, if only for the financial requirements.
 
is that just an os preference, mike - or something that has to do with resolve that you've noticed?
 
Personal preference based on personal work habits.
 
Marc " have two or three additional systems operating as a hub" what sort of cost effective system would you have? If you have to go windows PC path what would be your ideal (cost effective) system configuration?
Thanks.
I'd only go Mac, with a Cubix expansion chassis. If money were no object, I'd make the entire facility Linux as far as color-correction goes, and go for 8 GPUs. Real-world, you can do HD with no problem with a high-end Mac and fast storage.

Mike is right in that the Panasonic plasmas are now a dead-end, but I suspect a brand-new model will still be useful for the next 3-4 years. After that, throw them out and plan to get a projector or whatever new monitor technology is available then.

I'm not a fan of having a color-correction monitor for the colorist and a separate "client monitor" for the client, since it's never possible to match the two. You wind up creating an environment that makes the client insecure, so then you have to endure the "which monitor do we believe in" problem. I think the VT50 is good enough that it can serve as a single monitor, provided you make allowances for the ABL issue (as do a couple of dozen facilities in LA).
 
Mike is right in that the Panasonic plasmas are now a dead-end, but I suspect a brand-new model will still be useful for the next 3-4 years. After that, throw them out and plan to get a projector or whatever new monitor technology is available then.

The problem with committing to a new plasma right now is that unless you're planning to get multiple units, you won't have any backup if the one you get fails. A few years ago, Phil Mendelsson bought a bunch of Kuros for the Ascent facilities that they're still using today because he bought all the stock he could find. So if one is to buy Panasonic plasmas now, I'd strongly suggest getting two for every one you actually think you need.
 
Panasonic made a lot of advancements since Kuros, related to phosphor aging as well, greatly increasing plasma's life span.

Also, if Panasonic chose to end production of plasmas it likely means that something superior is in the works, to replace them in the same price range.
 
In fact our choice is Resolve and the system is well specced and integrates well with our data environment. Ive read as many threads as I can find and there appears to be no conclusive answer, and theres no clear winner, but then I didn't really expect one. Given the outboard kit, monitoring and so on are near similar or same Im just interested to know what folks are using these days else where.
 
In fact our choice is Resolve and the system is well specced and integrates well with our data environment. Ive read as many threads as I can find and there appears to be no conclusive answer, and theres no clear winner, but then I didn't really expect one. Given the outboard kit, monitoring and so on are near similar or same Im just interested to know what folks are using these days else where.


I'm not an expert in this field but from looking at what the different players are doing I think there is not many that can stand up against BM / Resolve for grading. They got all the schools hooked, they got all the BM camera users hooked and they have enough other sales to keep doing what they do. In other words they can have people on staff that develop Resolve further without really charging for it. They figured out early on that it would be a winner if they just dumped out resolve licenses for less / free and have people downloading it for free just to realize that they want a graphics card, a console and all kinds of video converters and everything thing else that goes with the trade. So no charge for software and then provide hardware to the people that gets hooked is a tactic has worked very well for them and I very much think it's the future of software development. Giving away the main part and then the client comes back to buy other bits and peaces that they needed to improve.

The solutions that other still try to fly, where you kind of need to buy a whole setup does not attract schools or first time users in the same way and when people already learned one software, then it takes quite a lot to make them jump ship and go spend a lot of money to start all over on something else.

So for me, if I was to set up a grading/finishing facility today I would for sure go for resolve. No doubt there is systems out there that might preform better, but if I try to look a few years down the line then I really do not see a bright future for mystica, filmtools etc. To me it's quite clear that the times for big machines and heavy investments in this field are long gone, that mentality maybe worked well back in the days of filmscanners and tape decks but not now. Today I think it's far better to not lock down such sums on dedicated hardware that no matter what will be quite outdated rather shortly.

I see the new mac pro's with fast SAN/fiber or Thunderbolt networking and possibilities to set up good render farms for grading and also have multiple people working over fast network. Just as for VFX, one balance out the material, one work on the look, one provides mattes/splines, etc. As when the price for machinery goes down the only way to up the game is manpower. Sadly the wester world and our salaries are not really optimized to win the jobs when those times comes. But thats another story:(
 
How about having two Plasma's or any other good tv or good latest computer monitors like Dell as colorist monitor and client monitor? Do they need to be of same size?
 
How about having two Plasma's or any other good tv or good latest computer monitors like Dell as colorist monitor and client monitor? Do they need to be of same size?
I again question the need to have two. Every major facility I've seen in LA generally has one 50" display at the front of the room, and the clients sit behind the colorist and just peer over his or her head. That unless it's a grading theater, in which case it's a projection screen where the client sits in front and the colorist sits in back of the room and looks over the client's head. But two monitors is fraught with problems. I know it's done at some facilities, but I think it's inviting trouble.
 
Hi Marc,
What sort of light is used for client viewing? Normal room light, dim, day light, tungsten?
 
I'm not an expert in this field but from looking at what the different players are doing I think there is not many that can stand up against BM / Resolve for grading. They got all the schools hooked, they got all the BM camera users hooked and they have enough other sales to keep doing what they do. In other words they can have people on staff that develop Resolve further without really charging for it. They figured out early on that it would be a winner if they just dumped out resolve licenses for less / free and have people downloading it for free just to realize that they want a graphics card, a console and all kinds of video converters and everything thing else that goes with the trade. So no charge for software and then provide hardware to the people that gets hooked is a tactic has worked very well for them and I very much think it's the future of software development. Giving away the main part and then the client comes back to buy other bits and peaces that they needed to improve.

The solutions that other still try to fly, where you kind of need to buy a whole setup does not attract schools or first time users in the same way and when people already learned one software, then it takes quite a lot to make them jump ship and go spend a lot of money to start all over on something else.

So for me, if I was to set up a grading/finishing facility today I would for sure go for resolve. No doubt there is systems out there that might preform better, but if I try to look a few years down the line then I really do not see a bright future for mystica, filmtools etc. To me it's quite clear that the times for big machines and heavy investments in this field are long gone, that mentality maybe worked well back in the days of filmscanners and tape decks but not now. Today I think it's far better to not lock down such sums on dedicated hardware that no matter what will be quite outdated rather shortly.

I see the new mac pro's with fast SAN/fiber or Thunderbolt networking and possibilities to set up good render farms for grading and also have multiple people working over fast network. Just as for VFX, one balance out the material, one work on the look, one provides mattes/splines, etc. As when the price for machinery goes down the only way to up the game is manpower. Sadly the wester world and our salaries are not really optimized to win the jobs when those times comes. But thats another story:(

I think you summed it up much better than I can. In fact doing an external consultancy job we just specified Resolve on all workstations in a leading University, mostly because we could. Some systems are full spec some have more limited control surfaces. Now in a well specced data environment it has a very fast SAN the Students can work in real time 4k if they wish on their projects. The tools are as good and in most cases identical to the tools we have in our professional environments and its affordable. Like you say its down to the people, the tools are one thing but they won't perform by themselves with out good operators.
 
I think you summed it up much better than I can. In fact doing an external consultancy job we just specified Resolve on all workstations in a leading University, mostly because we could. Some systems are full spec some have more limited control surfaces. Now in a well specced data environment it has a very fast SAN the Students can work in real time 4k if they wish on their projects. The tools are as good and in most cases identical to the tools we have in our professional environments and its affordable. Like you say its down to the people, the tools are one thing but they won't perform by themselves with out good operators.

The next big question who will hire all those colorists when they finnish school... This year I got more than 500 people applying for internship, most of them have more than 3 years of schooling... Sadly I do not really have room for them and I do not see the amount of projects around. A few years ago Stockholm had a hand full of VFX artists, and about 5 or if I stretch it 10 people grading. As it is the schools here turn out a few hundred students every year, I do not really see the market making progress in any way near the same speed. Thinking of all those students take their student loans just to find out that they probably would have a greater chance making a carrier if they decided to be rockstars or race car drivers makes me a bit sad. Film is a big business but it far from big enough to bring meaningful work to even a small tiny percentage of the kids that spend big money to learn the trade. To say the film industry it's heavily over saturated is a understatement. Obamas visit at dreamworks today might shine a bit of healthy light on things.
 
The next big question who will hire all those colorists when they finnish school... This year I got more than 500 people applying for internship, most of them have more than 3 years of schooling... Sadly I do not really have room for them and I do not see the amount of projects around. A few years ago Stockholm had a hand full of VFX artists, and about 5 or if I stretch it 10 people grading. As it is the schools here turn out a few hundred students every year, I do not really see the market making progress in any way near the same speed. Thinking of all those students take their student loans just to find out that they probably would have a greater chance making a carrier if they decided to be rockstars or race car drivers makes me a bit sad. Film is a big business but it far from big enough to bring meaningful work to even a small tiny percentage of the kids that spend big money to learn the trade. To say the film industry it's heavily over saturated is a understatement. Obamas visit at dreamworks today might shine a bit of healthy light on things.

Yes thats true too. On the Island I life the fees will cost them £30,000 plus lost income if they had a job of about £60,000 so they are £90,000 before they start work. We try to create jobs but there is a limit to what we can do. What we can do is at least try to train them well rather than give them poor education and a big bill at the end of it.
 
Hi Marc, What sort of light is used for client viewing? Normal room light, dim, day light, tungsten?
My preference is for D65 lighting in the room at a very low level, if this is TV/home video grading on a monitor. Tracklights with very narrow focus and no splash can illuminate small pockets of lights on tables, plus small striplights for floor steps at the client table. Clients generally need aimable Littlelights or something like that so they can check their notes, get on their laptops, smartphones, whatever. I've gone back and forth with monitor wall backlighting and can work either way; if I can choose, I'd rather have it than not, provided it's at maybe 20% of the illumination of the monitor.

In a D-cinema theater, it's pretty much got to be pitch black. We've managed to use Littlelights with flare shields to avoid spill, but they're not exactly 6500 degree whites.

BTW, don't overlook the problem of hallway light spill whenever somebody enters or leaves the room, which is one of my pet peeves. Very few facilities understand the need to get the hallway lighting D65 as well, and also control the doorway in such a way that the light won't blast out the monitor whenever the door is opened.

All of this is covered in Alexis Von Hurkmann's excellent book Color Correction Handbook, by the way.
 
Is it worth buying cinemartin software for converting pro res on windows pc?
 
Hi Jake,
any pro level free software you can think of please?
 
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