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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Purchasing a mac pro

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Cicero A

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I am in the que waiting for my scarlet-w and my computer Im certain wouldnt be able to handle the footage. with that said, what is my best option as far as future proof for the new mac pro(trash can looking)? What would YOU get?
 
Cicero A said:
I am in the que waiting for my scarlet-w and my computer Im certain wouldnt be able to handle the footage. with that said, what is my best option as far as future proof for the new mac pro(trash can looking)? What would YOU get?
Click to expand...

Yeah wait on trash can.

Strong suggestion is Mac is going to release new trash cans very soon.
 
I totally trusted this guy selling me a future proof computer!

bill-cosby-for-texas-instruments.jpg
 
I wouldn't hold my breath for a mac pro upgrade. Apple has made it very clear they have no interest in the professional community anymore. Mobile is their focus now.
Even with an upgrade. The current line of Mac pro crap cans are slower than the 5k imacs.
 
WWDC :

+) New MBP announcement seems very likely (rumors around that APPL is into heavy testing of revised chips)

+) 2016 nMP : Scratching my head on this. OSX has a 12 Core limit. To make use of a 18 or 22 core Xeon ... I Guess that Apple will announce first, give companies 3 months to test with a development version of the OS - and that the Golden Master will make its way out in October 2016.

AJ
 
If buying the Imac 5k is it better to wait on that as well, or you think it will not come with an upgrade at the same time the mac pro upgrade comes out... ?

Im thinking if they upgrade the graphics and thunderbolt ports on the mac pros then they might as well release a iMac with the same no?

I'm really in a pinch for a bunch of new computers now and I feel timing could possibly not been worse.
 
Antony Newman said:
WWDC :

+) 2016 nMP : Scratching my head on this. OSX has a 12 Core limit. To make use of a 18 or 22 core Xeon ... I Guess that Apple will announce first, give companies 3 months to test with a development version of the OS - and that the Golden Master will make its way out in October 2016.

AJ
Click to expand...

Who says that OS X is limited to 12 cores? I believe the limit is 32 logical cores
 
I'm waiting till 1st quarter of 2017 for new computer purchases, with vastly improved new gpu's from both nvidia and amd we first have to wait till those are available at volume. Secondly it will take another 6 months for the software to take advantage of the new features. Now is a good time to get a used computer from someone you know. I think 2nd quarter of 2017 is probably the best time to get a system if you want it to last 3 years.
 
I think the more appropriate question is... what is the minimum requirement to run 8K @ 60p (relatively) smoothly (with few to no stutter/jitter; be it PC or MAC - 100% preferable, 1/2 will be accepted, 1/4 pushing it)

I'm sure that will be somewhat future proof till 16K becomes a standard. When I mean standard, all your neighbors have 16K TVs and you have media being delivered from edit to disc or streamed to TV in 16K.
 
I don't have hard facts - but am happy to speculate.

iMac

+) Intel's consumer CPUs with built in Graphics maybe impacted by their desire to stick with high margin high end chips.

+) AMD had inked a deal with Apple to supply high end discrete GPUs that offer 2 x the performance per watt.

+) Apple have demonstrated their screen displays (iPad Pro mini) are P3 gamut, brighter, lower reflectivity.

I therefore guess that Apple will push Screen quality(P3), graphics that are twice as fast, TB3 . But timing will be driven by AMDs ability to supply GPUs in quantity. Sept-Nov?

AJ


Björn Benckert said:
If buying the Imac 5k is it better to wait on that as well, or you think it will not come with an upgrade at the same time the mac pro upgrade comes out... ?

Im thinking if they upgrade the graphics and thunderbolt ports on the mac pros then they might as well release a iMac with the same no?

I'm really in a pinch for a bunch of new computers now and I feel timing could possibly not been worse.
Click to expand...
 
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If you just can't wait, the iMac is a smaller investment and that big display will still look great even after the internal tech gets left behind. The toughest thing is not knowing when new iMacs and NeoMPs will be available. So what are the now vs next round differences?

CPU: Newer CPUs will be faster, as usual, but (in most cases) only incrementally

GPU: Both AMD and nVidia are introducing new boards this year that take advantage of process shrink to offer roughly 2x performance per watt over previous cards. Since so much of what we do is pushing pixels, this is a big deal.

I/O: Not sure why they didn't just call it USB4, but the new rounded and reversible USB-TypeC connector looks to be the standard that most device makers are going to. It carries ThunderBolt3 as well as up to 100 watts of power (15W per TB3 leg), is backwards compatible, etc. Buying any computer system in 2016 that does not have an Alpine Ridge controller and USB-C ports risks earlier obsolescence and/or dependency on adapters.

Cheers - #19
 
Skip the current trash can. If you need something now I think there's 4 options:

1. Buy a used latest Mac Pro tower and put a GTX1080 in when they come out in a few weeks and a USB3 PCIE card.
2. iMac 5K maxed out
3. Build a Hackintosh (your best bang for the buck if you want to run OS X, and you can dual boot Windows)
4. Build a PC and run Windows
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
I/O: Not sure why they didn't just call it USB4, but the new rounded and reversible USB-TypeC connector looks to be the standard that most device makers are going to. It carries ThunderBolt3 as well as up to 100 watts of power (15W per TB3 leg), is backwards compatible, etc. Buying any computer system in 2016 that does not have an Alpine Ridge controller and USB-C ports risks earlier obsolescence and/or dependency on adapters.
Click to expand...

The thing with the Type-C connector is it's just that, a connector. It actually predates USB 3.1 and USB 3.1 is not required to use a type-C connector. USB 3.5 uses it as the default standard instead of Type A and presumably so will USB 4. Then there's Thunderbolt. Which also uses the USB Type-C connector. However not all USB Type-C ports are going to be Thunderbolt enabled, but USB 3.1 support is included in the Thunderbolt 4 specification. The cables are different too. Thunderbolt 4 cables only work on Thunderbolt 4 enabled ports and can be used to connect either Thunderbolt or USB devices. USB C cables can only be used for USB.

As for an updated Mac Pro, we should find out at WWDC. The biggest reason to upgrade would be new GPUs. Hopefully they offer nVidia GPUs this time around as we should end up with far superior driver support. That has been the crux of the 2013 Mac Pro cylinder -- beyond shitty GPU driver support from AMD/Apple. The hardware was never able to be fully utilized.

They really need to step back up to the plate with a dual CPU offering here too.
 
You know I've been waiting a long time for a Mac Pro with Tbolt3.

I built a Hackintosh in 2013 before the Trashcan

2015 I bought a Tower for $2500 and ended up ditching it cause may back was getting thrown lugging it around and the USB 3.0 Card I had kept loosing drives on 3 seperate jobs.

This past monday I purchased a 8 Core 64GB RAM 1TB SSD D700 for $5700 after tax. Used it for Becks new video cause I had to handle Phantom footage plus 2 units.

Worked like a charm couldn't be happier. Out performs a tower and Hackintosh. Much less hassle too it just works.

Got a call for a feature in June which is a great opportunity to put it to work.

I've never been a firm believer on TBolt2 read all my posts I've been pushing for Tbolt 3 for years. This NAB we saw very little of it, I doubt we'll see much more at Cine Gear.

If they do announce a new Mac Pro when will it ship and what software plus hardware options will be out there to fully utilize it?

I saved so much on this trash can than new, it's fast and everything I need is on market and can be purchased for 30-40% off retail. And I've talked to all trash can owners and they've told me how to build a fast ass unit. Avoid buying the wrong gear.

All and all I've been avoiding Thunderbolt since 2012 cause I didn't think it's fast enough...little by little after I worked with a Phantom Tech and was getting 64fps on phantom footage with a SSD RAID then I realized the potential.

I didn't wanna buy my Trash Can but I'm so happy I did. Regardless what happens I can benefit from this system at least 6 months which is all I need.

As for June I feel like Apple will release Laptops

Did we ever get confirmation that the new XEON Broadwell-E Chips offer Display Port 1.4 for 5K via Single Cable in TBolt 3. I remember some rumor being so thats the reason theres no 5K Cinema Display.

Also are the Broadwell Chips shipping anytime soon? I would like to build a PC with them if ASUS releases a new Mini-ATX board with better ports in 2011-3 Socket.
 
I'm with you Cid on loving the form factor of the trashcan - small, quiet, light, etc. I'm fortunate to have a van solution so I don't have to schlep my tower very often - and my USB3 PCI card has been flawless. IMO, the physical design of the trashcan is brilliant - but the components Apple could order in quantity at the time they put it together were limiting.

I'd love to see them stick with the casing form factor due to efficient cooling with the larger, slower and quiet fan design - a bit taller would be OK - but with up to date internals. I'm with Jeff on preferring nVidia, especially with Pascal cards hitting the market - but could live with AMD Polaris cards if they put proper effort into drivers/optimization. For the tasks that I do most often, data I/O is key. Like Cid I really want proper TB3 support with plenty of PCIe lanes. One reason I consider I/O so critical is my expectation that SSD RAID tech will put 2GB/s read/write devices in compact form factors on the market at competitive prices during the next year - not to mention high capacity single SSDs.

So far, external chassis solutions for the trashcan have been useful, but only to a point. TB3 should make them much more attractive for power users like us, and not just because the throughput is higher. Jeff or Eric or L. Langer might have more details - but from what I've read, TB3 will be able to support external GPUs quite nicely. In my perfect world that would mean I could run on the internal GPUs most of the time and then just add a bomber GPU for client supervised color sessions, renders, etc.

If one could be certain that Apple will ship a substantially upgraded trashcan by October, then the decision is easier - unless you have a big project before then. The scary part is waiting, and waiting, and then it's summer of 2017...

Cheers - #19
 
I also love the form factor of the trash can. It's my favorite workstation for certain tasks -- like modeling in Modo or SolidWorks. It's great for light R3D workflows too. The biggest issue I have with the cylinder Mac Pro is the GPU drivers I've mentioned above. This has been a huge bag of hurt with rendering issues in Adobe CC and Resolve and there's plenty of blame to go around to multiple places here. Adobe's OpenCL implementation is crap compared to their CUDA support. Apple and AMD have dropped the ball with keeping drivers up to snuff with where they should be. AMD sucks at driver development and this has always been the Achilles Heel for their GPU hardware. To keep things fair, most of the rendering issues we see in Resolve are also present on Windows systems with AMD GPUs.

Apple needs to rethink the design though. It's time to step up with real GPU options and future upgrade paths if they want to be relevant in the VR future. And they can't reserve that thinking only for their top tier workstation either. They need to find a way to be competitive in this segment or bow out entirely. I'd like to see a larger cylinder or cube form factor that can accept full size PCIe GPUs. And I would like to see them open up to use off the shelf GPU hardware. For all other I/O connectivity, TB3 and USB 3.1 (or hopefully 3.5) is all we need for the foreseeable future and the realistic lifespan of a new system launching this year.

TB3 has support for direct PCIe peripheral attachment and full GPU support as part of the spec. I have a hunch that Apple and some of the other Thunderbolt consortium members did this in order to push on Apple. Unfortunately, TB3 is effectively dual TB2 in a single cable. Yeah, it's twice as fast, but everything else is twice as capable or more since the launch of TB2, in particular all those GPUs. We're not gaining any ground with TB3, just keeping up. And it's a difficult to support interface from hardware manufacturers' point of view. Most users get all they need from USB. TB still appeals most to those professionals that need more than USB for a few select peripherals. The TB3 eGPU movement is targeted at gamers in addition to pros. The gamers are laughing at it because it chokes their hot new GPUs down to 1/5th of the potential bandwidth. Nope, not going to happen when the current hot-shit gaming rigs are 3 and 4 way SLI with the latest GeForce or Titan GPUs.
 
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