ProRes RAW... Why not?

[Massimiliano_Serra]

Soon many will start to edit on the new Mac soc with the dedicated improvement for the ProRes format and the number of users will grow up with the new desktop version next year.

We already have a ProRes codec in our RED Komodo and more in general RED cameras, so why not even the RAW version? I suppose there's a licensing cost but I think that codec support can make many people really happy.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Redcode is at the heart of their cameras and is superior to Apple Raw. I don’t see why Red would even entertain that.

 

[Brian Timmons]

I suppose there's a licensing cost but I think that codec support can make many people really happy.

There might be a licensing cost but not in the direction you might think.
Ironic if RED broke their own patent on RAW.

I'm happy with REDcode.
It's already proven itself over the years and we would likely no longer have the steady demosaic and color science improvements with ProRes RAW.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Christoffer Glans]

We already have a ProRes codec in our RED Komodo and more in general RED cameras, so why not even the RAW version? I suppose there's a licensing cost but I think that codec support can make many people really happy.

You do know that Apple went into a patent battle with Red over ProRes RAW as it is working in the same way as R3D? And Apple lost. Do you think Red will use Apple's competing codec inside their cameras after that? Apple effed this up. If they had worked closely with Red maybe we'd see support for R3D within their hardware. But as it is now I don't think Apple will create such support and Red will never use ProRes RAW. So unless Apple lock their lawyers into their cages again and create hardware acceleration support for R3D, there won't be any changes to this.

Plus... R3D is a much better codec. Why do you want to use ProRes RAW? Get a PC post-production setup and shoot R3D.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

The wavelet based version of RedCode has a different resource requirement than the DCT version that debuted in the Komodo and is now used in the V-Raptor. They may have the same name, but to me, the codec shift does impact some choices one might make in system architecture. Each codec does have a different scheme for deciding what image data to "toss". FWIW, I'd test ProResRAW from camera if offered before making any judgements.

Cheers - #19

 

[Han Vogen]

With the release of the DJI Ronin 4D and Nikon Z9… both of which will capture internal ProRes Raw; coupled with how nicely ProRes Raw edits on the new Apple silicon, I think it’s clear that ProRes Raw is quickly becoming the new standard.

The killer feature is ease of post production work. The writing is on the wall.

 

[Massimiliano_Serra]

The writing is on the wall.

but "they" don't want to read it

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I think its clear that ProRes Raw is quickly becoming the new standard.


The writing is on the wall.

Standard of what? Red owns the patent to compressed RAW, for which Apple pays Red. R3D is a widely known and used codec, built into a lot of post-production workflows, while ProRes RAW is barely used. ProRes RAW "might" become a standard in the future, but R3D is too integrated into professional video and filmmaking that proposing ProRes RAW to be close to becoming a new standard makes no sense.

I think you're looking at the wrong market. ProRes RAW might become a standard for DSLR YouTubers and alike, but for top tier cinema gear for cinema, streaming and commercial work, even if Arri implement it into their cameras, it will not be "the" standard, it will be "a" standard.

 

[Phil Holland]

I don't know how to point out the obvious, but there's several cinema level RAW codecs in use across the industry. RED's REDCODE RAW, ARRI's ARRIRAW, and Sony's X-OCN.

I haven't fully deconstructed and dug into Canon's iterations of Canon RAW and RAW Lite, but those are likely in play. CinemaDNG should be mentioned, though nobody is going that route in modern times. BRAW is a different concept and working for that world, more or less metadata driven mezzanine/partially debayered.

Apple created ProRes RAW, it's another option. It's rather similar to the current iteration of REDCODE RAW using a DCT structure with some subtle differences.

But critical to all of this is looking deeper into the color science and image processing, which is where a great deal of the uniqueness of each of these stands out.

ProRes RAW is another option for compressed RAW, which is a good thing in my mind. But it's got a ways to go. Getting a few new cameras that support it is great. I suspect we're moments from iPhones being able to dance that dance as well.

Apple does have the reach and ability to get ProRes RAW more adopted industry-wide, but it's most useful for those who won't endure the R&D of making their own formats, and there might indeed be beneficial reasons to do exactly that. To the most recent announcement, I'm real curious to see what Nikon's new N-RAW codec differs from ProRes RAW.

To that note, I do wish there was a ProRes licensing option for Resolve. Feels like we can probably get that done this decade.

It's also interesting to look at a purely Apple workflow once again with the new chips, but CUDA still is pretty far beyond in terms of GPU related acceleration. Different strokes for different folks really when it comes down to that. I dip into all workflow pools and the new Apple chipset is a much needed breathe of fresh air for the Mac workflows. But it isn't representing the top hardware from Apple nor PC side, which is notable.

REDCODE RAW is very literally one of the most mature, well adopted, and optimized RAW codecs out there. It just got a nice update as well with Enhanced Demosaic, which is coming to 3rd party apps too. And most are ignoring a great deal of the additional metadata tied to other aspects of workflow.

Good to have options. Especially for camera systems that really need them.

 

[Massimiliano_Serra]

It just got a nice update as well with Enhanced Demosaic, which is coming to 3rd party apps too.

Hope Resolve will adopt it asap