ProRes Encoding on PC?

[Bryan Cua]

Sorry if this was already mentioned,

But does ffmbc support timecode encode?

 

[Brian Merlen]

Can anyone update me on how well any of these 3rd party prores creation techniques work? Are they feasible to do on set while cycling cards? Like I mentioned in another thread I do mostly prores encoding on set, at least usually and between Apple getting rid of the PCI slots and the rocket X backorder I am kind of in a pinch here. If I can reliably and consistently encode prores (from redcine or resolve since it needs the LUTs burned in) then getting a PC in todays world might make sense. But from what I am reading here and else where is it reliable, how much of a pain is it going to be to even attempt something like this on set while cycling cards? Will anyone support it? I read about some other competitor third party prores stuff, is any of that reliable at all?


Just trying to see if PC is even an option for me at all essentially, cuz unless I can burn in looks and have a pretty seamless workflow it just seems like mac is the way to go. I hate the many limitations in the mac ecosystem today, but I guess I'd settle for that over not having relaible prores encoding


edit:

i think the real problem might be is how do i output prores on a PC from resolve or or redcine, cuz i don't think converting r3d files to prores pre grading is a very good solution. i mean i am not colorist but doesn't seem like its ideal to compress the heck out of prior to even coloring... so i wanted to be clear on what i think i need, which is the outputting with LUTs, and i am just not sure if that is even possible after going through lots of this stuff online trying to wrap my head around it...

 

[Marc Wielage]

i think the real problem might be is how do i output prores on a PC from resolve or or redcine, cuz i don't think converting r3d files to prores pre grading is a very good solution. i mean i am not colorist but doesn't seem like its ideal to compress the heck out of prior to even coloring... so i wanted to be clear on what i think i need, which is the outputting with LUTs, and i am just not sure if that is even possible after going through lots of this stuff online trying to wrap my head around it...

There's no reason why you can't create temporary ProRes files in RedGamma/RedColor Rec709 for the editor to use as dailies to edit the show together, and then have the colorist conform the R3D files later for the final. The colorist can always use the ProRes version as an offline reference, to get an idea what the editor and director have been seeing during the editing process.

 

[Paul Russell]

Not having a lot of fun with Cinec at all. Buggy buggy buggy.
Cliptoolz works far better.

 

[Brian Merlen]

There's no reason why you can't create temporary ProRes files in RedGamma/RedColor Rec709 for the editor to use as dailies to edit the show together, and then have the colorist conform the R3D files later for the final. The colorist can always use the ProRes version as an offline reference, to get an idea what the editor and director have been seeing during the editing process.

In theory your right, but I do table top work where they don't typically go back to the r3d files, its for broadcast or web content typically and fast turn arounds so that is why they even get a DIT, so they can bake it "good enough" and just cut from that. So even with third party prores options if i can't create it with the LUTs its basically a no go and I'd need to stay OSX based... no DP who wants it baked with LUTs is going to want it baked without LUTs

so i know its a picky workflow, but unfortunately that is why they bring me in at all is the problem lol... so unless there is some way to do this with LUTs I think I need to forgo PC route entirely... in either case if its not possible (which from my reading so far, seems to be the case) at least that gives me closure on i need to stay OSX based, and that in itself is very helpful... i'm going to keep trying to figure out a way to do this, but so far its not looking possible besides on OSX...

 

[Eric Bowen]

Not having a lot of fun with Cinec at all. Buggy buggy buggy.
Cliptoolz works far better.

What version of Cinec are you running? I have not had any support calls or reports back from clients using it. What are you running into with it?

 

[Brian Merlen]

just called red to see if i could do this anyway on PC, they said no. i am going to call black magic now but expect the same answer. damn you apple LOL! u got me again!

 

[Phil Holland]

Can anyone update me on how well any of these 3rd party prores creation techniques work?

just called red to see if i could do this anyway on PC, they said no. i am going to call black magic now but expect the same answer. damn you apple LOL! u got me again!

Well they aren't exactly correct here. Just not through stock Redcine-X Pro and PC use.

I've been working with Red material, ProRes, and PCs for a while now. At this moment the absolutely easiest way to encode ProRes via PC is through Miraizon. It was the best money I've spent recently on pretty much anything.

It works with all PC applications that have access to the traditional Quicktime Codec Settings, which is where it's problematic when it comes to Resolve as they "roll their own".

Fine by me.

Here's what I can say and what works for me:


In Redcine-X Pro you can create a Miraizon preset and encode away in each of the ProRes variants.

Additionally, Adobe Media Encoder has support for LUTs on on export so you can literally just export straight out through that with a LUT applied with a Miraizon ProRes preset as well. If you want to get adventurous you can make a quick sequence in Premiere Pro CC or whack on a quick title or something in After Effects as well.

 

[Phil Holland]

Or in graphical form, Quick ProRes .R3D Export on PC with LUT via Adobe Media Encoder CC and Miraizon Quicktime ProRes Codec:

Works well. I dish off dailies this way. I can also do this straight through Redcine-X with a look worked up in RCX itself.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Nice Phil, thanks.

 

[Brian Shephard]

Awesome! I'm actually getting ready to switch from Mac to PC. My new computer arrives on Friday. I've read about Miraizan on these boards a few times and am definitely going to get it this weekend. Thanks, Phil, for the visual explanation.
On a quick side note (not to get too off topic), do you have a good recommendation for virus protection (other than staying with Mac)?

 

[Brian Merlen]

Interesting, so there is a way to do it! What if your not a CC user, can I still do the LUTs with redcine alone and Miraizon and output them? Or your setting the LUT in redcine, importing it to CC, and then applying it in CC and outputting from CC, so it has to have CC installed since that is the only way to do this with the applied LUT? I had asked a lot of people how to do this and everyone said it was impossible, so I am really impressed Phil thanks for the advice! I am def going to look into this some more... I mean even if I have to use CC its not a deal breaker I suppose..

mediaworkstations.net have some very impressive laptops that are far beyond anything apple has or will have anytime soon, I posted about it here previously on another thread, like you can kit them out to basically a desktop level. I personally like the form factor of it, since I am sure it would fit in a pelican just fine while providing desktop like power and easy of mobility...

So making a prores workflow for encoding is like a huge deal for me man, thanks so much! any more you care to share is highly appreciated but i'll start looking into this more as well!

Or in graphical form, Quick ProRes .R3D Export on PC with LUT via Adobe Media Encoder CC and Miraizon Quicktime ProRes Codec:

Works well. I dish off dailies this way. I can also do this straight through Redcine-X with a look worked up in RCX itself.

 

[Paul Russell]

What version of Cinec are you running? I have not had any support calls or reports back from clients using it. What are you running into with it?

Hi Eric

I'm running Cinec 3.x Gold. I've already had several remote sessions with their support guy, who is a very nice chap. Right now I can't select a temp path for conversions under options - it simply won't accept a choice. And it won't encode DPX files into PR444, which Cliptoolz has no problem doing. Given the very high price for this software I am majorly disappointed.

Miraizon works fine in Adobe, but is not supported in Resolve.

 

[Brian Merlen]

Awesome! I'm actually getting ready to switch from Mac to PC. My new computer arrives on Friday. I've read about Miraizan on these boards a few times and am definitely going to get it this weekend. Thanks, Phil, for the visual explanation.
On a quick side note (not to get too off topic), do you have a good recommendation for virus protection (other than staying with Mac)?

Norton or Mcafee seem to be pretty popular, its been years since I even had to deal with a PC that I owned so I can't say for sure whats the most popular now. It will slow down your system since it runs in the background, best bet is keep your station offline (but CC won't allow it easily). Also macs do get virus's its a misconception that they don't its just back when mac was not very popular mainstream wise people didn't bother making viruses for them. These days I am positive its an issue, its just most users don't know its compromised unless it bricks or performance takes a big enough hit

 

[Phil Holland]

Interesting, so there is a way to do it! What if your not a CC user, can I still do the LUTs with redcine alone and Miraizon and output them? Or your setting the LUT in redcine, importing it to CC, and then applying it in CC and outputting from CC, so it has to have CC installed since that is the only way to do this with the applied LUT? I had asked a lot of people how to do this and everyone said it was impossible, so I am really impressed Phil thanks for the advice! I am def going to look into this some more... I mean even if I have to use CC its not a deal breaker I suppose..

mediaworkstations.net have some very impressive laptops that are far beyond anything apple has or will have anytime soon, I posted about it here previously on another thread, like you can kit them out to basically a desktop level. I personally like the form factor of it, since I am sure it would fit in a pelican just fine while providing desktop like power and easy of mobility...

So making a prores workflow for encoding is like a huge deal for me man, thanks so much! any more you care to share is highly appreciated but i'll start looking into this more as well!

I enjoy the word impossible. ProRes via the PC two years ago was much more difficult. These days, it's far easier.

If you generate a look in Redcine-X Pro and save the .RMD it gets imported to you your Adobe Media Encoder export, so if you need to do a "correction" and then apply the LUT that's the way to do it.

If not, just go straight to AME and export.

Redcine-X Pro works well with the Miraizon plugin/codec and if you just need to make corrections there you can straight export right away. Currently LUTs are not supported in Redcine-X Pro.

I use a fairly tricked out MSI Laptop when working abroad, though I have a feeling I might be able to utilize a tablet in my particular workflow soon even.

 

[Brian Merlen]

Whats the conclusion on reliability? Seems like the way to go. Only thing that scares me is when things crash who do I call for support, or how do I keep it running? I am going to ask around see if I can get some advice on how realistic it is that this will function while under pressure, so far I see some complaints of bugs which worried me a bit

 

[Phil Holland]

I haven't experienced crashing during encoding at all.

I have had it barf on me during the start of an encode which just made the encode hang in Redcine-X Pro. Literally restarted it and it worked fine.

Other than that I haven't had much issue with it. Works pretty much like encoding through Quicktime, which it technically is doing.

 

[Eric Bowen]

What happens when you try to encode DPX to PR444? What resolution are the DPX files. Want to make sure I am aware of what is not working when dealing with Cinec right now and see if I can push some buttons there

 

[Paul Russell]

Hi Eric

Open Cinec. Go to 'add images/raw sequence', in the new window, choose Add Directory. Choose an appropriate directory and wait nearly a minute to process 278 files on a RAID that gives me 700Mb/s in a Dual Xeon beast with 96GB RAM, then click ok. A 12 second duration clip appears in the main windows, images are 4096 * 2160.

Then choose Apply preset to all Apple_ProRes_444, ensure the output filename is correct and that the cineform button is not clicked. Set fps to 25.
Press Encode. Wait 6 seconds for green 100% completed sign. Go to file directory to find it empty.

 

[Eric Bowen]

That is their file writer then most likely. Ill test here and contact them soon as I can get the test done. If you get a chance please run that encode again with Windows Explorer open to the folder location for the destination PR444 files. See if any temp files show up during the encode. Let me know if you see any.