Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

ProRes and Weapon

Jarred said carbon can do 4k prores, they are working on it
 
I have many clients in which 6K is far to much to handle for them. (I'm not talking small shops, I am talking major NYC Post houses) They are maxed out at 4K in their minds. I can't imagine when I mention 8K to them, they may explode. However, to be able to sell the beautiful 8K Full frame look packed neatly into a 4K Prores file... that will sell like hotcakes.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Almost every feature film that shoots ARRI shoots RAW now that the XT does it on board. It is the episodic TV market that shoots ProRes.
Click to expand...

almost every feature film in Amercia which approriate budgets, shoot arri Raw. in Europe most films shoot prores and that is just a fact.

The prores vs RAW discussion is pointless, because we are mixing up business with personal emotions.

It doesnt really matter if RAW is better, if clients want prores. you can make an argument, but simple business logic dictates that "the customer is always right, even when they are not. "

Money is money. give them what they want, or they will just get it somewhere else - most likely from the folks in Bavaria.
 
Just curious... can we edit Pro Res in Redcine?
 
I would speculate that Red initially want R3Ds to always record a Fat negative - and the 2k Pro-Res probably already used a fair chunk of the available SSD write bandwidth.

Allowing a 4k pro-res out might result users raising the R3D compression to a point where the fat negative was compromised.

With the on-the-floor feedback ... I guess Red re-evaluated the 'must always record R3D' requirement .. and in doing so, have a just reason to output 4K ProRes.

Did anyone at NAB get a chance to ask Apple when they are going to roll out 10 bit displays ... and add 10 bit to OSX? :-)

2k ProRes: I was actually thinking that FCPX on the new low-power Intel chips (in the new Fanless Macbook) might be powerful enough for basic edits with 2k Pro-res, to be later switched out for R3D on return to a proper system setup. Anyone have thoughts if the Macbook could cope?

AJ
 
Not sure nick,

but taking HDRx as an example of recording two streams, pretty much every maximum gets cut in half, so there has to be a compromise.

Essentially with itch hdrx you are writing two tracks into an r3d file. Turn on hdrx and compression rates drop, framerates drop, etc. I don't know about the additional processing power built into Weapon, but the combo of that power and the faster recording media might bump this up a fair bit.

Having prores recording on might compromise some performance, as scaling and such needs to happen, but that happens in the signal chain before HD SDI and HDMI out as well. I am imagining that the scaled image information is being taken, encoded to Prores and written to disk. There has to be enough power to still do the monitoring, etc, so maybe the monitor signal is being grabbed to record the Prores, or maybe it is independant and can have its own LUT applied separate from the monitoring and r3d path.

If its 2k or 4k Prores it makes sense that it would happen after scaling the image from the 6k sensor data.

So it it depends at which point in the chain the monitoring image is. Chances are it is not being R3dcompressed and then sent out, but I can not be sure.
 
David Battistella said:
i defer, as by this statement you know more than the rest of us.
Click to expand...

Well ... I only know what the menus presented at NAB on the working Weapons with respect to this stuff. But it is obvious that there is independent hardware components encoding the ProRes vs the R3Ds - as it requires different hardware to do those two types of compression. But they are written at the same time to the same media. Which is not trivial.
 
After much critique I believe it was offered up that there could also be a pro rez only option which could be the path to the 4K pro rez. So three flavors. This may be the only way to get top quality 4kUHD by turning all the power to one task.
It's back in the threads some place.
 
Tarquin Cardona said:
After much critique I believe it was offered up that there could also be a pro rez only option which could be the path to the 4K pro rez. So three flavors. This may be the only way to get top quality 4kUHD by turning all the power to one task.
It's back in the threads some place.
Click to expand...

Looking at Phil's photos it appears prores only is an option:
phfx_NAB2015_RED_0037.jpg
 
I agree with David that at least an 4K Prores should be available.
Yes R3D is the best. Yes, it is NOT a big pain to work with these days. I do it easily on a modern laptop, a fast drive and FCPX.
BUT some people are gonna want Prores (got good reasons too, let's face it, not everyone NEEDS Raw. Let's not forget on Focus they only shot 5 percent for VFX shots on ArriRAW, and they said it did gave them a *little* bit less lattitude, but this was even before the XQ Prores was announced, which they are now shooting exclusively for their new feature). The whole native working in Prores in FCPX workflow worked great for them.

And isn't Prores just resolution independent? I think I can render out whatever size Prores out of FCPX. I think the sizes in the white paper are just there for comparison to know how much you should calculate for your drives etcetera. But not hard limits. I'm not sure about this.

Having 4K Prores straight out of the camera will just make the RED cams be used in a lot more situations then they are now. And that should make everyone happy here. Even if some people prefer R3D or now. (and with Weapon, maybe having dual 4K Prores and R3D will be possible, if so that's a big win-win for everyone).
 
My Red one already had 4,5K and Proxies, nothing new there!! But when i have CF 6K (8K) with R3D and 4K(and 2K of choice) Prores i will gain a lot more clients and pushing Arri away!

New Showreel on www.camlight.nl All Red !
 
Also, I saw this in another thread, but will EDB be included in ProRes recordings since it's only a Redcine option right now.
 
Last edited:
Gunleik Groven said:
As to datarates...

11020745_10206331927836668_1249092823575102916_o.jpg


It would've been interesting to have a map of "computing price per frame", not only data rate.
Click to expand...


That 5K Prores XQ seems pretty optimistic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top