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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

ProRes 422 HQ Problem

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Mike eldredge

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I recently had a client who wanted me to shoot in ProRes 422 HQ at 1920 1080p. I usually shoot RAW but he only wanted ProRes so I switched setting to just shoot ProRes 422 HQ at the highest quality. When I brought the clips into premiere I noticed they looked like garbage. Very bad moire with a very harsh sharpening effect. Did I miss something? I double checked the settings and everything looked good. I checked to see if these were just proxy files but they are not.

here is a link to the example:

https://vimeo.com/293583944/4f38ad56ad
 

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Something is going on. Someone posted about something very similar regarding a mid-range quality Avid codec just the other day. Red needs to get this sorted
 
Almost looks like the focus sharpening was recorded into the prores files. is that an option? I remember back in the day i accidently forgot to disable the tools setting on the sdi port when sending to a recorder.
 
That is exactly what it looks like. I have my monitor settings sharpened but that should have nothing to do with the image right?
 
Im not sure. sharpening is a tools setting that is assignable by the output path. So i guess it depends on what the output path is for a prores record and if its affected or not. i guess easy way to tell would be put settings back, do a roll and toggle the sharpness on and off a few times and see if thats reflected in the recorded image.
 
Mike eldredge said:
That is exactly what it looks like. I have my monitor settings sharpened but that should have nothing to do with the image right?
Click to expand...

Monitoring sharpness bakes into ProRes. This seems like the answer to your question. You shot everything with the sharpening set to whatever the camera was, the files are now sharpened to that extent.
 
Negative.

Here's what doesn't get baked into your mezzanine codecs, In Camera Focus Tools.

In the Menu>Monitoring>Advanced>Video

There is a setting called "Output Sharpness". That does get applied to your ProRes or DNxHR files.
 
I just recieved conformation from RED that the monitor sharpness and settings will be baked into prores. It is a fine print detail but good to know. It sucks I had to find out this way but lesson learned. I will always shoot R3D from now on.
 
Mike,

Not sure Red’s advice is correct and unless its changed Phil is correct when he says only the “Output Sharpness” will be recorded by the Proxy files although not the R3D files. The “Focus” sharpening settings in Tools is only for monitoring and will not be recorded.
 
I thought it might have been an output issue with the recording but RED confirmed that they recreated the issue by turning on the sharpness of the monitor. They submitted a request to apply a warning in future updates.
 
Mike eldredge said:
I thought it might have been an output issue with the recording but RED confirmed that they recreated the issue by turning on the sharpness of the monitor. They submitted a request to apply a warning in future updates.
Click to expand...

Mike,

Thankyou for the clarification. Unfortunately the terminology you are using is a bit hazy. When you say "turning on the sharpness of the monitor" do you mean the setting found in Menu>Overlays>Tools and then selecting "Focus" in the drop down menu? Or are you talking about Menu>Monitoring>Advanced>Video - Output Sharpness ?

Can you say what FW you are running and which camera? If it is the setting in "Tools" is baking into the proxies then that is problematic for the Proxy workflow and it doesn't require a warning rather the isolation of the Focus effect from the Proxy.

Unfortunately I don't have my camera to test with at the moment
 
Yes, I've dealt with this before.

Focus assist tools (and all other tools) - not baked into ProRes or DNxHD. Use this when you only need a sharp display.
Output sharpness - baked into ProRes or DNxHD. Use this when you need a sharp file.

The thing to remember is that something named "output" is probably going to be baked in.
 
Sorry about the vague language. I need to double check but im sure Phil is right. I am just so used to shooting R3D I wasnt expecting this situation. I might have just assumed that the sharpening was just observational and not an output setting that would bake in. Im going to double check tomorrow but either way it is nice to know RED might apply a warning in the future.
 
One thing I've learned through the "School of hard knocks" and my own observations is to record .r3d as a fail safe or a "Plan B". Even when the client insist on ProRes or Avid DNxHR/DNxHD flavors, I do not turn off the dual format recording. Its just me. I don't trust the client's requisites or thought process at the time of acquisition. More often than not, they will come back with "I wanted this not that" scenarios.
 
Mike eldredge said:
Sorry about the vague language. I need to double check but im sure Phil is right. I am just so used to shooting R3D I wasnt expecting this situation. I might have just assumed that the sharpening was just observational and not an output setting that would bake in. Im going to double check tomorrow but either way it is nice to know RED might apply a warning in the future.
Click to expand...

Did this ever get resolved? I'm considering prores only recording for media limitation reasons... but am concerned about this.

Also, would have preferred dnxhd as i'm switching over fully to PC, but the lack of playback in camera for dnxhd is a bummer. Hoping that comes soon.
 
Nikhil Kamkolkar said:
Did this ever get resolved? I'm considering prores only recording for media limitation reasons... but am concerned about this.

Also, would have preferred dnxhd as i'm switching over fully to PC, but the lack of playback in camera for dnxhd is a bummer. Hoping that comes soon.
Click to expand...

It's not something to be resolved. Output sharpness gets baked into the ProRes and DNx files. That's a feature, not a bug.
 
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