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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Problems with Scarlet, Red - in general.

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frankmonroe

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There is something I need to understand about Red as a company. Yes, the cameras are cool... But what exactly are you doing? Instead of creating a better, brighter, cleaner image - you just keep making the image sizes BIGGER and BIGGER? Which for me means one thing... I'm going to have to spend even more money on computers and harddrives and post time on the back end!

I was thinking this year was going to be great; Scarlet was going to be a REAL indie film camera that gave people of limited means the ability to really use something professional... but I was wrong it seems. 100MB throughputs are much more than pretty much anyone can handle... even in early 2009. Are you factoring in the added storage space, downloading time, hassle? Or are you just making things BIGGER and BIGGER just to make everyone, who doesn't know any better, want your product?

Who needs 5k anyway? Where can one find a 5k display? I'd prefer something with better low-light, richer colors, AND a good image size. I think Red needs to take a direction of quality over quantity, and make a camera that lives up to more than just megapixels. Or is that why Red One didn't beat Sony's F23 in image quality tests?

Frank
 
Well hopefully Red Epic will have the in-camera scaled mode that's missing from Red One. If it does, starting with a 5K sensor to get 4K or 2K images will be an added bonus. Of course enhanced DR is much more important.
 
Yes, where did this 5K came from, though I think 6K is a matter of time.
And are the movies entertaining?
 
All I can think is that is take years for camera systems to hit professionals, production companies, and networks - think about all the systems they have to buy for reviewing... if Red doesn't start letting people catch up, I don't think they'll be around too long since none of their systems will be adopted.

That, and a one chip camera has a dull image... no matter how big the sensor is (although full frame is amazing). Where is the 3-Chip Red camera with the awesome low light?

Frank
 
I believe almost all DSLRs are one chip cameras and they all have top quality images nowadays. Since RED ONE was essentially designed to have the image sensor of a giant DSLR it seems only logical that a one-chip sensor would make a lot of sense, and simplify camera design tremendously.

I have noticed few complaints about RED ONE's image quality, and a lot of praise of same.

D
 
frankmonroe said:
All I can think is that is take years for camera systems to hit professionals, production companies, and networks - think about all the systems they have to buy for reviewing... if Red doesn't start letting people catch up, I don't think they'll be around too long since none of their systems will be adopted.

That, and a one chip camera has a dull image... no matter how big the sensor is (although full frame is amazing). Where is the 3-Chip Red camera with the awesome low light?

Frank
Click to expand...

I think many would disagree with your assessment of the image quality that RED offers.

Take a look at the list of movies and projects being shot on RED. I don't think RED is on the wrong path
 
I not saying it isn't good, but why is BIGGER always BETTER? Have you ever used an F23? Just simply the look of the image knocks Red One off of it's feet. I love Red, and I like what they're doing... but I think this latest series of upgrades is indicating a turn in the wrong direction... from a business stand point.

And DSLR can use one chip because they aren't shooting 24-160fps. I want better low light! Not an easy thing to do with one chip... but we'll see what Epic is. And, I apologize... with all the hype I was expecting to be blown away, but like DSLRs all the consumer understands is megapixels.

Cheers
 
RED is pushing the limits, they are in front, they are breaking new ground. I guess when you stick your head up above others there will always be those who toss tomatoes. I applaud RED and them pushing innovation to new levels. I can't quite afford a RED camera yet so I'll be getting a Sony EX1, but I admire RED for what they are doing. Every industry needs a RED.
 
Its really sad to see so many complaints on the boards today. Seriously - one one end, people are whining about 3K not being good enough, and on the other end people are saying 5K is too big. It's ridiculous how ungrateful the community seems on such a big day.

If you're not happy waiting for the new cameras, you can always wait for something "better" like the ex3 or panasonic's new offerings. People don't seem to complain as much about CA and the like in those circles.
 
couple of things. first, you complain about the cost/quality of scarlet, as you hoped it would be a true indie tool. then, you keep talking about the f23. you got that in your budget?

anyways, i do agree with the 5K thing being a little weird.

personally, i am going to wait until the 32K camera comes out in 2012....burgandy!

i do agree with 4K being the place it should stop....for a while...although I bet RED could convince me otherwise. They ain't dumb, and I am sure there is some hidden benefit to the whole 5K thing. but i couldn't agree more that the competition for the next 5 years will be about perfecting the 4K image quality.
 
It's all about the quality of the sensor. If the sensor is designed well, it will be fine. Do you expect them to release a poorly designed product? I should hope they would not.
 
HERE IS WHY BIGGER IS BETTER:

I do a great deal of color correction, especially in APPLE COLOR. Having more pixels in my image means I have more abilities to pull, adjust and otherwise make a beautiful color correction and look. Have you tried coloring on a SD image recently? It's hell on earth. 720 and 1080 ain't much better either. I can't wait to do some 2k and above coloring. Now I know that APPLE COLOR can currently only output a 2k color correction (I believe) but I'm sure that will be updated with products like Scarlett now coming out.
 
frankmonroe said:
There is something I need to understand about Red as a company. Yes, the cameras are cool... But what exactly are you doing? Instead of creating a better, brighter, cleaner image - you just keep making the image sizes BIGGER and BIGGER? Which for me means one thing... I'm going to have to spend even more money on computers and harddrives and post time on the back end!

I was thinking this year was going to be great; Scarlet was going to be a REAL indie film camera that gave people of limited means the ability to really use something professional... but I was wrong it seems. 100MB throughputs are much more than pretty much anyone can handle... even in early 2009. Are you factoring in the added storage space, downloading time, hassle? Or are you just making things BIGGER and BIGGER just to make everyone, who doesn't know any better, want your product?

Who needs 5k anyway? Where can one find a 5k display? I'd prefer something with better low-light, richer colors, AND a good image size. I think Red needs to take a direction of quality over quantity, and make a camera that lives up to more than just megapixels. Or is that why Red One didn't beat Sony's F23 in image quality tests?

Frank
Click to expand...

Frank, correct me if I'm wrong, but is it i slightly difference in price between F23 and RED? About 175 000 USD or so... so why even compare? And if RED and F23 have about same image quality - I will stay with RED. But If you are a millioniare take F23!
 
paulgandersman said:
HERE IS WHY BIGGER IS BETTER:

I do a great deal of color correction, especially in APPLE COLOR. Having more pixels in my image means I have more abilities to pull, adjust and otherwise make a beautiful color correction and look. Have you tried coloring on a SD image recently? It's hell on earth. 720 and 1080 ain't much better either. I can't wait to do some 2k and above coloring. Now I know that APPLE COLOR can currently only output a 2k color correction (I believe) but I'm sure that will be updated with products like Scarlett now coming out.
Click to expand...

having more dynamic range is a HUGE part of this equation. it's not just 'bigger is better' when doing color work...
 
I think you´re missing the point with 5K.. The true resolution of Red One isn´t 4K because of the pixel array. I think it was closer to 3.2K or something (I think Graeme posted that number somewhere).. Also this was stated by other companies that.. With 5K the true resolution will be 4K after de-bayering. So your post etc. won´t change one bit.

I applause this development! 100MB/s is really the BIG thing for me though. I hope to see higher numbers on Red One in the near future too..
 
Is this thread about Scarlet the 3k camera or Red One? :bleh:
 
Red has already told us 3K is a great way to shoot for a 2K finish. 5K is probably the best way to shoot 4K!

And that Frank guy kind of lost credibility for me when he said that DLSRs can't make nice images. I don't think he understands that pretty much all of the photos we have seen in the last few years were shot on single-chip DSLRs.
 
frankmonroe said:
you just keep making the image sizes BIGGER and BIGGER? Which for me means one thing...

100MB throughputs are much more than pretty much anyone can handle... even in early 2009... are you just making things BIGGER and BIGGER just to make everyone, who doesn't know any better, want your product?

Who needs 5k anyway? Where can one find a 5k display?
Click to expand...

Where to begin here? First, you know that we're talking about a single-chip camera. So why didn't you consider that a single 5K chip doesn't yield 5K's worth of full-resolution image? If your goal is a "true" 4K, even 5K doesn't quite cut it (although it'll likely be close enough for just about anyone).

As far as 100MBps is concerned: If that's too much for your workflow, then dial it down. Problem solved. But this data-rate increase is a huge step forward for reducing the likelihood of artifacts in a frame packed with high-frequency detail.

Finally: Look at some of the Red team's past posts about the problems of putting three large chips in a camera. Even the lenses must be designed to accommodate the color-spectrum splitting that is done in these cameras, whereas a single-chip camera can work with film lenses.
 
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