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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Pro I/O to Vmount adapter plate.

I want to be able to run my Epic on Red Brick V Locks. I have the quad battery module and 6 revolts but want the size and run time that the V Locks offer me. I also want to be able to do this with the Pro IO. Red please give us a solution to use V Locks or at least tell how long until we can have a solution and hopefully one that works for people that bought VF and WC parts when Reds were not available.
 
Ok. I've always supported Red but this I seriously don't understand.

I was honestly shocked when I heard that Red was suing Wooden Camera for some of their accessories.
I'm sorry to say that, but WC was there when Red wasn't able to deliver most of its accessories on time. I had ordered a top plate from Red, but after many months spent waiting for it with no clear news I finally decided to go with WC's top plate because I really needed one (and I liked it). I also ordered some other accessories from them which I liked and that mostly where not available from Red at that time. The order shipped within 15 minutes from WC, and 2 days later I had everything in my hands.

Now about the VF battery mount. I bought one the day it became available, because I needed a compact solution that allowed me to use my beloved Red bricks. Red never had an equivalent to this battery plate, and still hasn't. The only thing that comes close is to buy a Red backpack ($1200) + a backpack battery plate ($650). That's $1850 for a battery plate (which apparently you can't mount on the modules neither). Hello, seriously ?! VF's battery plate is $699 and has all I need, is lighter and more compact (plus it was available immediately, not back-ordered like Red's).

I haven't ordered the Pro IO for now as I don't really need it, but I may be buying the +1 adapter module when it comes out, so I want to know I'll be able to still use my VF battery plate on there if I do. If Red is indeed blocking third party manufactures from doing these adapter plates because of some stupid patent, then they suck. Plain and simple.

So, Red, I know you listen to feedback. Please make this right. I fully understand that you want/need to protect you IP, and I'm no debating that. But something is not right if you're harming your customers in the process.

VF, WC and others were there when Red wasn't able to deliver accessories in time. They saved my ass and many others with their accessories. They added value to Red by providing different options for customers, like better battery plates, NATO rails with safety stops, leather handles (love them), Arri-Red rosette adapters, different options for shoulder rigs and loads of neat little accessories that covered our needs. They deserve to be treated with respect. And so do your customers who bought their accessories in good faith. That means they need to be able to continue supporting us and keep their accessories compatible with the camera as it evolves. This is in the best interest of everyone. Angry customers is never a good thing.

I pre-ordered a Red One 5 years ago, many months before the first ones were even shipping. I did so because I loved the concept, I loved the few pictures I had seen, and more than all because I had a very good feeling about the company and the people running it. Please never forget how it started and always keep that spirit. Don't become like Apple on the patent front. Protecting your patents and IP is fundamental. Over-protecting them is a big mistake that will harm everybody in the end, including you.
Thank you.
 
Up-coming ActionProducts Battery (v-mount; ect.) Pro I/O top plate adapter. Rides on top of the Pro I/O and attaches to the regular 1/4" treads - so no Patent issues here:)
Some renders below - Stay tuned!
 

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Brian D. Goff said:
Up-coming ActionProducts Battery (v-mount; ect.) Pro I/O top plate adapter. Rides on top of the Pro I/O and attaches to the regular 1/4" treads - so no Patent issues here:)
Some renders below - Stay tuned!
Click to expand...

Nice design,

from this im gathering that anything that locks into the epic module itself is encroaching on RED patents and warranties. It puts them at risk with their customers if an outside accessory manufacturer is pushing the limits of the module attachment points and then RED has to fix them, charge for it, and end someones warranty. People will be pissed off people down the road.

Think about this also, people slam V-mounts batts down on and off the camera all day. I don't want that vibrating through the whole body, redistributing that energy into the cheesplate is better.

I think that RED may be looking out for us on this one...
 
FYI. If you have an old Epic-M top plate from Viewfactor, you can press it into service as a top plate for the IO module. This stop gap approach may give some of you folks a way to rig your batteries/battery plates off the top until better solutions arrive. Obviously you need to use EVF/LCD cables with a straight end to come out of the top. I have found this to be preferable anyway.
One caveat: The Redmote will not fit on the back.

 
Nils Ruinet said:
Ok. I've always supported Red but this I seriously don't understand.

I was honestly shocked when I heard that Red was suing Wooden Camera for some of their accessories.
I'm sorry to say that, but WC was there when Red wasn't able to deliver most of its accessories on time. I had ordered a top plate from Red, but after many months spent waiting for it with no clear news I finally decided to go with WC's top plate because I really needed one (and I liked it). I also ordered some other accessories from them which I liked and that mostly where not available from Red at that time. The order shipped within 15 minutes from WC, and 2 days later I had everything in my hands.

Now about the VF battery mount. I bought one the day it became available, because I needed a compact solution that allowed me to use my beloved Red bricks. Red never had an equivalent to this battery plate, and still hasn't. The only thing that comes close is to buy a Red backpack ($1200) + a backpack battery plate ($650). That's $1850 for a battery plate (which apparently you can't mount on the modules neither). Hello, seriously ?! VF's battery plate is $699 and has all I need, is lighter and more compact (plus it was available immediately, not back-ordered like Red's).

I haven't ordered the Pro IO for now as I don't really need it, but I may be buying the +1 adapter module when it comes out, so I want to know I'll be able to still use my VF battery plate on there if I do. If Red is indeed blocking third party manufactures from doing these adapter plates because of some stupid patent, then they suck. Plain and simple.

So, Red, I know you listen to feedback. Please make this right. I fully understand that you want/need to protect you IP, and I'm no debating that. But something is not right if you're harming your customers in the process.

VF, WC and others were there when Red wasn't able to deliver accessories in time. They saved my ass and many others with their accessories. They added value to Red by providing different options for customers, like better battery plates, NATO rails with safety stops, leather handles (love them), Arri-Red rosette adapters, different options for shoulder rigs and loads of neat little accessories that covered our needs. They deserve to be treated with respect. And so do your customers who bought their accessories in good faith. That means they need to be able to continue supporting us and keep their accessories compatible with the camera as it evolves. This is in the best interest of everyone. Angry customers is never a good thing.

I pre-ordered a Red One 5 years ago, many months before the first ones were even shipping. I did so because I loved the concept, I loved the few pictures I had seen, and more than all because I had a very good feeling about the company and the people running it. Please never forget how it started and always keep that spirit. Don't become like Apple on the patent front. Protecting your patents and IP is fundamental. Over-protecting them is a big mistake that will harm everybody in the end, including you.
Thank you.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I kind of have to agree. I understand RED's points of the importance of patent protection. But they also need to understand that if they are bending over backwards adding the word 'pro' to every single thing they manufacture, well then they need to make products that allow their cameras to function fully in a 'professional' environment. Redvolts are not that.

I need a camera with real power accessory ports
I need a camera with reliable menu control AND evf functionality at the same time.
I need my ac to be worried about pulling focus, not worried about which of his 12 little revolts are charged and which ones are not

Red. We love you cameras. But for your cameras to compete against the competition on set they need the ergonomic solutions that 3rd party accessory manufactures are providing.

Hope the lawyers figure out a solution to this impass sooner rather than later.
 
I sympathize with the reaction to REDs dispute with Wooden Camera. It is disturbing to think that the active 3rd party market might become hesitant to develop release new products. But there are options out there now for this issue that don't rely on the proprietary connector at the back of the camera. There are ways to rig batteries - of any make - off the camera using top mount 19 mm rods, swat rail, etc.

I understand people want to make use of their Red bricks. I think they are great batteries, just rendered useless for me because the v-mount is very unreliable in my experience. Andreas, I'm not sure why you think REDvolts are "unprofessional". They are simply one of many tools we can use in a professional environment. I sometimes use large Gold mount batteries, sometimes smaller Dionic 90s and HCs and sometimes Redvolts. I certainly wouldn't want to use REDbricks as my only option. Kind of defeats the purpose of building the camera small and light. If you haven't tried using one of the quad or dual redvolt modules, you should check them out. The camera always pulls from the lowest charged battery, and switches to the next lowest when it hits 4%. The power dialogue box shows the status of each of the batteries, and this can mapped to a single button for quick reference. A loaded dual batt module with a battery in the side handle will get you over an hour of intensive use. It will weigh less and be smaller than a camera with a REDbrick attached to the back and allow hot swapping at anytime. My ACs like them and I've found them very, very useful. of course, like many I would have preferred to see an accessory power out on these modules, but there IS one on the ProIO module which is the subject of this thread.

Time will tell if the power out on the Pro IO is an improvement over the one in the RED 1. I see there is a menu dialog box to "reset" it, so it seems they are trying to address the issues many experienced in the past. I sold all my RED one cables, so I cant test the ProIO with my power accessories at the moment.
 
I'm sure RED are listening, they always are...they just choose not to answer things like this at times. And I'm sure there will be a solution of yet another 1" think module on the back just to mount current vlocks from both RED and third parties even if not warranted. But to be honest it's a pain in the rear. Love the idea of modules but I never expected that for each module and module adapter is needed. So if running the io and a redvolt module there us 4 extra on the body!

Love the cameras and the modular idea but were starting to see some real caveats coming to surface now unfortunately. Once again RED, if you can't provide workable solutions straight away for your cameras and it's many many months down the line for fixes you need to relent and let third parties help you keep your customers happy as they have been doing for a long time now. Filling your shortfall in accessories not to mention availability. Protect your designs and concepts but also don't be blind to the fact that some third parties are really helping your customers where unfortunately RED are having shortfalls. I'm no legal brain, far from it, but in my eyes and technicalities aside etc I see no difference with RED copying and making things like electronic lens mounts and simple plates using your existing mounting holes to even enable use of your own products where there is no direct solution from yourselves.
 
Third party vendors have made RED cameras not only more functional, but functional period in many cases over the years for sure. I think, regardless of how aggressively RED pursues their intellectual property enforcement, there will be plenty of third party options now and in the future. I doubt RED owns the patents on 19mm rods or swat rail profiles. Even with REDs improved delivery and back order track record, its never been wise or even possible to rely on them for all your camera needs. The good news is there are a lot of vendors out there to fill the gaps. The vast majority of the products they offer will never be affected by REDs patents.

I suspect that RED will release a v-plate that attaches like the other modules. Hinges in at the top, secures with a quarter turn torx in the bottom. Passes power thru the pins. Isn't that the point of the modular system? Why are we trying to stick battery mounts on the back anyway and then run a cable underneath to a very exposed DC in lemo if we can run straight thru the bodies multipin? But until this comes out, a quick stop to the Element Technica site (or whetever they are named now), or Berkey Systems or, yes, even Wooden Camera, will get you parts to adapt what you have to work. David Hable of Cramped Attic Technologies can build you a custom power accessory box for well under a grand.

Solutions are out there, REDs behavior one way or another on this issue will affect things in only the slightest. Yeah, maybe its not cool. I'm a big fan of Wooden Camera, voice your support of them and others trying to make our lives easier. And then go get what you need and get back to shooting. I've only had the IO module for a few days. But its really great, and I can retire some of the work arounds I've had to use in the past. I've learned a lot creating these work arounds however. And many of them I will continue to use whan I want a camera that is as small and light as I can make it. And I'll take a camera that can rival DSLRs in size and weight and then convert to fullblown studio configurations in minutes any day over something that starts three times larger and 20 lbs without even a battery on it.
 
Jeff Garton said:
I suspect that RED will release a v-plate that attaches like the other modules. Hinges in at the top, secures with a quarter turn torx in the bottom. Passes power thru the pins. Isn't that the point of the modular system?
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly.
Please, RED, make this happen!
 
There will be at least one solution from RED:
They are working on an adapter plate from module back to backpack.
And I'm about to talk Jarred into creating a DSMC quickplate module (here)

I started a new thread for this. Please add your vote if you're interested!
 
I just got my Pro I/O today and slapped my, uhum, WC battery plate on the back of it, it worked great even if Red isn't happy with me using the WC plate. I bought it early before I knew it was a no no. So now Red just needs something similar of their own and everyone will be happy.
 
What a bummer. I was about to order the Pro I/O Module, but will hold back until I find an appropriate solution for mounting a V-Mount battery to the back. Btw, is it possible to mount the REDMOTE on the back of the Pro I/O Module without problems?
 
Toby Linden said:
Btw, is it possible to mount the REDMOTE on the back of the Pro I/O Module without problems?
Click to expand...

This should be possible without problems. It's a standard DSMC module back.
 
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