PRIMO 70 VS SUPREME PRIMES

[Deon van Zyl]

I have a shoot coming up shooting full frame for the first time.
I won't get to test the lenses side by side as the PRIMO 70s need to be flown in.

I'm after something that isn't too clinical and has a bit more character than something like the Sigma FF for example.
I know they're both brilliant but I was curious if somebody that has used both has valuable input or opinions to swing the vote either way.

Thanks!
D

 

[Joe Cage]

Have not shot with either, but think the differences are:
Primo's are a bit softer, have more character but are a stop slower then the supreme primes. I think the primo 70's are low contrast lenses, and the supreme primes are high contrast ones.
So one is more of a vintage look, the other more of a modern look. But correct me if im wrong.

 

[Phil Holland]

Smoother draw and cooler flares on the Primo 70s, likely a flatter image as well as they were designed for a much larger image circle than the Sigma FFs.

Less breathing on the focus pull as well. I'm actually really fond of the Primo 70s. I wouldn't say it's a vintage look, but more akin to a modern take on say a Leica-R for cinema and large format. Sort of the same vibe I oddly get off the Schneider Cine-Xenar III primes for S35, but a smidge different.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Hey Deon,
Can't share the Zeiss Supreme Primes stuff, but this was shot on an early Prototype Panavision DXL Monstro cam & Primo 70. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVjDWQQC4zM

I of course love the Primo 70, smooth and creamy with a distinct sharpness and that Panavision flavor that is a bit less pronounced then on other lenses, this are much more modern not only in design but also in their character, because when I got the DXL to test I was concern with too much sharpens out of the 8K FF Monstro sensor paired with the Primo 70, I used a Soft Black Mist filter on Camera, and that was a mistake, images where pretty good, but I now made NO use of any Softening on camera, especially with Monstro and any new Primes.

Master Primes remain very sharp and with an effective harder Focus fall off then the Primo 70 and the Zeiss Supreme Primes as a point of reference.

The Zeiss Supreme Primes, are equally great as the Panavision Primo 70, and they have an actual softer Focus Fall Off, as they where specifically designed to not be as the Master Primes, and while Sharp, they render better skin tones, and still offer a very nice sharpness all around.

The Focus Markings are more generous on the Primo 70, but they are equally precise on both lenses, enough to use with Cine-Tape systems no problem, even so I do not like nor make use of Cine-Tape, as it gives a general false confidence, and it serves no purpose when multi racking in more then one focus point while the camera points a t the same place.

Wish the Zeiss had few more Focus Markings, which when getting my personal set I might arrange for Matt at Duclos Lenses for it.

Over all, it's a hard call, the Primo are much bigger lenses, then the Compact 3lb Zeiss Supreme to keep in mind for Gimbal and Drone work.

The Cine Sigma Lenses (poorly rehoused Art Still lenses) where just a big disappointment for me that I would never consider shooting with them, period.

I enjoy shooting the Still Art Lenses on my Canon IV, but as far as Cine lenses foes Sigma has a long way to go.

 

[John David Pope]

The Sigma where just a big disappointment for me that I would never consider shooting with them, period.

I enjoy shooting the Art series on my Canon IV, but as far as Cine lenses foes Sigma has a long way to go.

If not the Sigma Cine primes, which "budget" primes do you prefer? CN-e's? CP.2's? Xenon's?


I'm a bit confused by your statements. You say you would "never" shoot with the Sigmas, period, and in the very next sentence you say that you do shoot with Sigmas and enjoy shooting with them. You characterize Sigmas both as "disappointment" for you and "enjoyable" for you. Enjoyable disappointments?

 

[Ketch Rossi]

The Cine Sigma Lenses (poorly rehoused Art Still lenses) where just a big disappointment for me that I would never consider shooting with them, period.

I enjoy shooting the Still Art Lenses on my Canon IV, but as far as Cine lenses foes Sigma has a long way to go.

If not the Sigma Cine primes, which "budget" primes do you prefer? CN-e's? CP.2's? Xenon's?


I'm a bit confused by your statements. You say you would "never" shoot with the Sigmas, period, and in the very next sentence you say that you do shoot with Sigmas and enjoy shooting with them. You characterize Sigmas both as "disappointment" for you and "enjoyable" for you. Enjoyable disappointments?

Apologies for the initial confusing statement John,
Corrected the sentences as in above quote to better and more clearly reflect what I meant

Sigma did a rush job on the Cine Sigma Lenses, meaning they poorly rehoused the Art Series Lenses leaving too much to fix despite the price range.

They have something new coming out which will still most likely NOT answer my desires, not enough to use them professionally on a camera the likes of Monstro, Ranger or DXL2 no doubt, but they are suupposivily working on a PRO Cine set, built from scratch and not rehousing Art glass, or possibly they would still rehoused Art glass but in a far better built and more Cine style controlled Professional Housing at a much higher price.

Till then I would not consider them at all for too many reasons.

If I was pressed for budget where I could not go the Zeiss Supreme or Panavision Route to either Own or Rent, then I would look first to the Tokina Vista's if size and weight was not a concern, otherwise second in line they Schneider Xenon would make a good choice, still talking about FF coverage of course.

But I sure hope to be able to afford the Zeiss Supreme for my next set up

 

[Michael Lindsay]

What camera are your shooting on? I am assuming one using a Monstro chip?

I think the sigmas are phenomenal value (the new 28mm is amazing) but they are def a tad boreing and a bit photographic and crisp. But then I found the supremes a little too photographic for my tastes too.... Though they do have a fair bit of character when used as a FF lens and can def produce nice images. But if that is what you want what about Cooke S7s? S7s are def not clinical and have easy to be benifit from character....or even the signatures which are very smooth and def not crisp and photographic in approach.... I have only played with the primos 70s but they do seem like a good clean but smooth leaning lens...for more character perhaps ask for the PV artistes versions? PV have some nice comparison material on their lenses available that may help?

I have a shoot coming up shooting full frame for the first time.
I won't get to test the lenses side by side as the PRIMO 70s need to be flown in.

I'm after something that isn't too clinical and has a bit more character than something like the Sigma FF for example.
I know they're both brilliant but I was curious if somebody that has used both has valuable input or opinions to swing the vote either way.

Thanks!
D

 

[Deon van Zyl]

Thank you so much for the feedback!

We're shooting on the Venice and I have chosen to go with the Supremes.
I've seen some lovely stuff shot on those that's similar enough to the type of thing we're doing to swing the vote.
I feel a bit silly not going with the PRIMOs but ergonomically the Supremes are also better fit.

Thank you so much for the invaluable feedback, Ketch.

Thanks Michael - I shoot on Cooke a lot (S4, S2, Ana's, Xtals) so I would probably have pushed for the S7s had they been available to us.

D

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Thank you so much for the feedback!

We're shooting on the Venice and I have chosen to go with the Supremes.
I've seen some lovely stuff shot on those that's similar enough to the type of thing we're doing to swing the vote.
I feel a bit silly not going with the PRIMOs but ergonomically the Supremes are also better fit.

Thank you so much for the invaluable feedback, Ketch.

Thanks Michael - I shoot on Cooke a lot (S4, S2, Ana's, Xtals) so I would probably have pushed for the S7s had they been available to us.

D

My pleasure Deon,
And you made a great choice, the Supreme will shine on the Venice the same way they do on Monstro