Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Price Complaints

okay, there's a obvious fuzz..

filmmaker's gang said:
this all ass kissing hurts.. :help: at least at our pocket.. i still have a little self esteem.. and respect for my work.. from where comes my money..
Click to expand...

i'll take the gibby's post as reference.. you well know how gibby's opinion is well considered.. and i can say i'm his fanboy.. he knows.. :wink:

Gibby said:
I think the ones who have complained about the RED prices are invariably those who are moving up from the prosumer world of production. They're used to prosumer price levels and they now have sticker shock at what a professional camera system costs. Ironically, the longtime professionals who know what pro-level camera systems cost, are stoked with RED prices because they know the RED prices are way below the norm for pro level gear.

Then there's the price to performance ratio of equipment: what you get in utility compared to what it costs. Longtime professional equipment users will immediately be able to discern that RED's utility and capability are extremely high + RED's prices
Click to expand...
yeah.. there are different markets.. different goals.. different users.. different professionals.. not all professionals have interest in RED.. some will be out because of this camera.. other ones will be out FROM this wonderful piece of gear.. because of the dollars..

other ones are doing art for living not business..
 
Fovean said:
$6500 for the RAW option was what surprised me...
Click to expand...

Yes, me too. Don't take this for more than it is; I'm sure the Red team and bean counters spent a lot of time hashing out prices and trying to deliver good ones. But more than the $300 cables or $500 lens mounts, this port bugs me. We all know that an outboard device capable of uncompressed data-capture will be very costly, but I for one thought the port itself was an integral part of the camera. Maybe I just missed the discussion of this as an optional extra-cost item.

Which leads to the question: Can we retrofit the port to the camera after buying the camera? I don't plan on buying an external RAID anytime soon, and therefore I don't need to blow this dough right now. But if the need for the best possible greenscreen comes along someday, what are our options in regard to raw output?
 
Which leads to the question: Can we retrofit the port to the camera after buying the camera? I don't plan on buying an external RAID anytime soon, and therefore I don't need to blow this dough right now. But if the need for the best possible greenscreen comes along someday, what are our options in regard to raw output?
Click to expand...

Good question... I was wondering this as well.

From the little I know about current camera accessories these prices look FANTASTIC!!

I'll take the option to buy an HD lcd screen over the cheaper SD attached lcd ANY day. Choice is a wonderful thing.
 
Don't hear our friends across the pond complaining? 9,975 pounds sterling for an ultra hi-def camera - nice...
 
Stokestack said:
Yes, me too. Don't take this for more than it is; I'm sure the Red team and bean counters spent a lot of time hashing out prices and trying to deliver good ones. But more than the $300 cables or $500 lens mounts, this port bugs me. We all know that an outboard device capable of uncompressed data-capture will be very costly, but I for one thought the port itself was an integral part of the camera. Maybe I just missed the discussion of this as an optional extra-cost item.

Which leads to the question: Can we retrofit the port to the camera after buying the camera? I don't plan on buying an external RAID anytime soon, and therefore I don't need to blow this dough right now. But if the need for the best possible greenscreen comes along someday, what are our options in regard to raw output?
Click to expand...

I would talk you OUT of a RAW Port until AFTER you see REDCODE RAW (which doesn't need the Raw Port).

Jim
 
Jannard said:
I would talk you OUT of a RAW Port until AFTER you see REDCODE RAW (which doesn't need the Raw Port).

Jim
Click to expand...

I believe in Red Code quality. I need someone to make me believe it´s going to handle faster speeds in the future (48fps is good enough for me). Red Code codec, at least in the stills, looks magnificent.
 
Jim, I'm with ya on Redcode only. But I really, really want overcrank really badly (I'm an action sorta guy). And from what I can tell, people here seem to mostly want the Raw just to get the 4k @ 60fps and 2k @ 120fps. Will you have any way, even in the future, for us to get those without going out the raw port?
 
Shawn... we are working on that, but I've now learned not to post anything prematurely. :-)

Jim
 
gunleik said:
I know what was posted @ DVinfo by stuart and DVXuser by jarred.
None of those posts include Jims signature signature (wow, that's a pun! -;) about "all specs prelim and can change at anytime" and still I feel...

...incredibly lucky being a rez-holder.

Really.

Have anyone tried buying an SD digibeta deck lately?

I mean... Really!

I have my whole Red package (without support, matteboxes et al) way below the price point of a single digibeta deck.

OK. The pricepoint is a bit stiff compared to a DV deck, but still...

Complaints?

Not me!

Gunleik
Click to expand...
No kidding! If I could get back what I paid for may present equipment, I could buy a LOT of Red cameras, fully equiped too.

Dave
 
Jannard said:
Shawn... we are working on that, but I've now learned not to post anything prematurely. :-)

Jim
Click to expand...

Fair enough, thanks! In the meantime I'll just drop down to 2k @ 60fps for my overcranking needs. If you guys could get the 120 that would be awesome. Did you see 300? The dancing oracle was shot at 250fps in a water tank! I guess if we wanted to do such things we'd still have to rent a film camera. But 120 would still look freaking cool.
 
Accesories for competing cameras

Accesories for competing cameras

I can see that I really got screwed on accessories for my HVX-200, like $2500 cdn for a 100GB firestore, while RED is offering 320GB for $900, that's over three times the storage capacity for just slightly more than a third the price. And at 1080p Redcode, it will give almost the same amount of recording time as 1080 DVCPRO HD. So even thought the RED is more expensive of an initial outlay, it gives you far more bang for your buck.
The Sony and Panasonic guys must be looking at Red accessory prices in shock and awe.


Emery said:
Whats remarkable about the RED camera is that it has opened the world of professional film making to so many different levels of film makers with varying degrees of experience and resources.

With the gate wide open, this unfortunately brings varying levels of expectations about operating costs. I find the complaints about the prices being raised or higher than expected to be disheartening.

I think we should all keep 2 important things in mind:

1. RED never promised prices in advance and made every attempt to set expectations by informing us everything is in flux... from prices to specs.

2. The announced price list, for the most part, is remarkably lower than other professional gear on the market.

So while we all drool and dream about the projects we plan on shooting with our cameras... everything from weddings to feature films, lets keep in mind RED set out to build a digital cinema camera, not a handy cam that you can bolt $50 sony batteries to.
Click to expand...
 
Borzoifilms said:
The Sony and Panasonic guys must be looking at Red accessory prices in shock and awe.
Click to expand...

Good point. By the time you rig out a HVX to really work it's still cheaper than RED but it creeps up there. And the image quality isn't going to be on the same planet.

I'd be pretty freaked out if I was Sony or Panny because what do they come back with? Something as good for the same price? Too late - game over. Even if it was half price would you really ditch your RED for a panasonic or sony version? Probably not - because you've already got your workflow etc.

RED getting 1500+ units out there is pretty friggin' big deal I think... is anyone buying a Varicam? Maybe a few. Maybe not.
 
joelnet said:
Good point. By the time you rig out a HVX to really work it's still cheaper than RED but it creeps up there. And the image quality isn't going to be on the same planet.
Click to expand...

From the rez tests I've done, if you distill every USABLE blip of rez from the HVX you'd barely get a true 1200 by 800 or so... the RED is a bigger leap over the HVX (approx. 4.4X the rez of the HVX) than the HVX is over SD (approx. 2.6X the rez of SD)... and that's just in resolution... not looking at any other factor like the superior compression of REDCODE and sensor dynamic range and bit depth...
 
Jim Arthurs said:
and that's just in resolution... not looking at any other factor like the superior compression of REDCODE and sensor dynamic range and bit depth...
Click to expand...

Yep - resolution, I'd argue, isn't even the biggest benefit of the equation (though it's nice). The dynamic range, the codec, 4:4:4 and 35mm lenses are all going to have a huge impact on how pleasing the picture is.

And somehow I think the noisy HVX shadows are gonna be history too - haha.
 
joelnet said:
The dynamic range, the codec, 4:4:4 and 35mm lenses are all going to have a huge impact on how pleasing the picture is.
Click to expand...

Of all the things that I've been hoping for the Red camera to deliver, the most important without a doubt is the 11 stops of latitude, please Red team, pretty please! :help:
 
Alexander Nikishin said:
Of all the things that I've been hoping for the Red camera to deliver, the most important without a doubt is the 11 stops of latitude, please Red team, pretty please! :help:
Click to expand...

That and the lenses. To be able to shoot outside in harsh light will seal the deal. When DP's see that film is truly going to die (possibly a slow death). Next season of 24 should be all RED. :-)
 
joelnet said:
That and the lenses. To be able to shoot outside in harsh light will seal the deal. When DP's see that film is truly going to die (possibly a slow death). Next season of 24 should be all RED. :-)
Click to expand...

Definitely, I'm really hoping for the promised 11 stops (not just hoping but it expecting hehe) as well as the ability to boost the asa up, and a solid line of lenses.

I can't imagine how awesome it will be to boost the asa cleanly up to 800/1,200 with some super speeds if needed. The only dissapointment I have with the Red One is the fact that I can't shoot any slow mo aside from cropped 2k at 60fps.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top