Price Complaints

[Alexander Nikishin]

There was talk of it, no promises, just talk from the Red team never the less.

 

[James T Mather]

Yeah, but the more you generally boost video chips gainwise, the more it compromises the "look" in general. the image becomes more "video" like - ref ; Miami Vice, Apocalypto -

Hidef systems, treated well, will deliver, nice pics : ref : Superman Returns.

 

[Alexander Nikishin]

Yeah, but the more you generally boost video chips gainwise, the more it compromises the "look" in general. the image becomes more "video" like - ref ; Miami Vice, Apocalypto -

Hidef systems, treated well, will deliver, nice pics : ref : Superman Returns.

I don't know about "more video like" ,but gain definitely creates noise, ugly amounts of noise with most cameras.

But I distinctly remember one of the Red crew, Jim to be exact I believe, stating that they could cleanly boost the asa to 800.

I can only praise and welcome the ability to shoot in lower light situations if needed. Ofcourse, I'll always expose a scene properly if possible, but if I'm limited to the amount of light I have for the shot ie. wall power only, I'd love to be able to boost my speed.

 

[Robert P. Hogue]

I'd be pretty freaked out if I was Sony or Panny because what do they come back with? Something as good for the same price? Too late - game over. Even if it was half price would you really ditch your RED for a panasonic or sony version? Probably not - because you've already got your workflow etc.

RED getting 1500+ units out there is pretty friggin' big deal I think... is anyone buying a Varicam? Maybe a few. Maybe not.

Red has at least a 3 year lead on its principal competitors, maybe more. It's no longer a matter of just getting a 4k camera out there, but they will also have to provide an equal or better feature set at an equal or lower price than the RED, something of which Sony has no intentions of doing for under $100 grand, and there is no talk of a competing product from Panasonic as of yet. There will still be a place for 3 CCD cameras for some time for news gathering, and live event coverage, but the future is in CMOS imagers. That being said, the demand for 3 CCD cameras like the Varicam and Cinealta will fall dramatically, and so will prices, and as well companies like Dalsa and Panavision will be forced to dramatically re-think their business models - how about a huge market for Panavision to rent their lenses to Red One owners?

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Miss Information

Miss Information

I have to wonder if Sony or one of the other big players has hired Karl Rove to do their mis-information campaign for NAB. The folks that have serious investments in current systems will likely echo catchy myths all over the exhibit floor. On behalf of all RedHeads I suggest we nod quietly and chuckle under our breath, ending each exchange with the suggestion that the "expert" we are chatting with stop by the RED booth to see the 4k projection...

If only we could be there to see the looks on their faces as they watch it

 

[Michael Hastings]

Re: competitors

Re: competitors

The RED team's accomplishment is remarkable, but I wouldn't just sneer at the engineering talent employed by Sony, Panasonic and Ikegami. In fact they don't have to be priced lower - I would suggest that if Sony brought out a camera at NAB with the exact same feature set and called it the BLUE with a price tag of $29K they would sell twice as many as RED. Rental houses, schools, large corporations, find it much easier to justify purchases from established vendors, and many individual users still appreciate the good things these companies have done over the years. It is also easier to tell a client you are shooting with the latest Sony camera than to ease their fears about shooting their project with this revolutionary product from a total newcomer. I know which one I want personally, but that doesn't change the reality of a lot of the other parts of the equation.

Red has at least a 3 year lead on its principal competitors, maybe more. It's no longer a matter of just getting a 4k camera out there, but they will also have to provide an equal or better feature set at an equal or lower price than the RED, something of which Sony has no intentions of doing for under $100 grand, and there is no talk of a competing product from Panasonic as of yet.

 

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

I think that when Sony and Panasonic etc. have THEIR 4k camera ready at a price point that even comes A LITTLE BIT in the price territory of RED, that at that moment, RED already will be an established vendor and a big well-known name...

 

[Chris Kenny]

I think that when Sony and Panasonic etc. have THEIR 4k camera ready at a price point that even comes A LITTLE BIT in the price territory of RED, that at that moment, RED already will be an established vendor and a big well-known name...

Yeah, people don't realize how small this market is. Red isn't really taking on Sony, but a single division of Sony which sells fairly low-volume products. If Red ships over 1500 units this year (which is what will happen if they fill all reservations by the expected Sept-Oct timeframe), that will represent a significant fraction of the digital cinema cameras shipped. Given this, it shouldn't take long at all for them to be accepted as a serious player.

 

[Joel Kaye]

If only we could be there to see the looks on their faces as they watch it

I'm just going to hold up my Titanium R like it's a crucifix. (I wonder if it'll burn their skin if you touch them with it?)

 

[Dominic Jones]

The dancing oracle was shot at 250fps in a water tank! I guess if we wanted to do such things we'd still have to rent a film camera. But 120 would still look freaking cool.

Just FYI Shawn, whilst you're still in rental territory, there are digital options for high framerate shooting - the Phantom HD camera does something like 1000fps @ 2k, I think (I can't remember the exact specs off the top of my head, but it's around that mark).

Not sure what you do with the data though! It may be that it's still cheaper for the odd shot to go back to 35mm...

Good to hear you're working on the overcrank issue Jim - I'll second Shawn on being very, very interested in the high framerates, but I'd love to be able to shoot in RedCode at those rates, and avoid all the Raw Port business. Here's hoping!...

 

[LighthouseMEdia]

ASA Speeds

ASA Speeds

I sincerely hope they at least give us the option of bumping ASA speeds WAY UP, that way creatively the option is at least there. Better in some cases to be able to make an adjustment and at least get the shot and have a little grain. ALthough this raw format also makes thing itneresting, we'll have to wait and see how many stops +/- we can compensate for underexposure in RedCine.

 

[Phil Becque]

Cor blimey those yanks don't know they're born!

Cor blimey those yanks don't know they're born!

Don't hear our friends across the pond complaining? 9,975 pounds sterling for an ultra hi-def camera - nice...

Well Sharky me 'ol mucker you've got a very good point there! Even with a few exotic bits it's still under 13,000 GBP which is frankly outf***ing standing!! And I do come from the lower 'prosumer' end of the film biz food chain.

You pay more than that for a poxy set of Remote Control Velux Window blinds for your conservatory for petes sake! And that's all made out of re-cycled plastic and string! Yuk!

Or for that money you could get three second hand Jaguar S types in British Racing Green (if you were planning a bank job) and needed some swift - but stylish wheels at a bargain and somewhat dispensable price. (Assumming you were successful).

Or you could give that sort of money to one of the most useless wankers to ever walk the planet - who would take all of ten minutes to 'find you a New House' - they're called Estate Agents here - I think you call them Realtors or something like that. Ggggrrrrrrrrrr !!

And just don't get me started on Architects - I mean it now - don't!!

13K pounds for a 'pucker' Ultra High Def Digital Cinema Camera plus accessories - I'll take 4 please!

All sweetness and Tranquil_Light

 

[PaulClements]

Have to agree, prices always look better in pounds than in dollars (Of course by that I mean smaller). And like Phil says when you live in rip-off britain importing the camera actually brings it's price more inline with prosumer options. I looked at the HVX last year and was being quoted about £5000 - £6000. By comparison the Red body would come in at about £7500 once you discount the reservation and allowance (Not including import duty and tax).

Most things in this country are not usually a direct import price such as red. Usually we'd have to pay about £15000- £16000 for the body, it looks slightly less than the $17,500 mark but of course it's just a con and is far higher.

The price of a full decent RedOne outfit will be far less than a new car (At least a half decent one) and will be far more usable.

 

[Mike the beginner]

One good reason WHY we are getting a great deal is that Jim Jannard has (so far) kept the selling of red within red HQ.

I would not like to imagine the price of a red one from some of the usual retail outlets in the UK. I think that was just another cool calculated and brilliant piece of selling that landed all of us overseas reservation holders with a far bigger bonus than the reservation bonus already announced.

My guess is the effective bonus we (in the Uk) get is probably nearer $7,000


Mike the beginner

 

[Martin Drew]

Makes a nice change to get a decent deal rather than feel like you are being fleeced. The other nice thing is whenever I see dollar prices, I always initially forget and think I am looking at a sterling price, then I do the maths and am pleasantly suprised... Works every time.

M

 

[Martin Drew]

My guess is the effective bonus we (in the Uk) get is probably nearer $7,000

It may well be even more than that if you compare it with the likely increase in cost if you had to go through a distributor. But don't forget that we also take on increased risk, if there is a problem with the camera it may well be a lot more hassle getting it sorted.

M

 

[Mike the beginner]

It may well be even more than that if you compare it with the likely increase in cost if you had to go through a distributor. But don't forget that we also take on increased risk, if there is a problem with the camera it may well be a lot more hassle getting it sorted.

M

Agree it will take longer and there is the cost of insurance. But i trust Jim Jannard will ensure the overseas buyers will get a pretty good service.

At least we dont get ripped off with the software updates. I remember going to shell out a lot more for my home cinema receiver, a tag McLaren, until i found out that we would get charged £500 every time there was an update.

With a good attitude to customers like that red might well end up becoming

"The best camera company in the world"

Mike the beginner

 

[Brook Willard]

Just to confirm - the LCD itself is actually 1280x720.

No: I was mistaken.