Premiere Pro Settings For DVD?

[Al Lougher]

Hey all

So I'm a bit of a noob with Premiere Pro after switching from FCP, especially where RED footage is concerned. However, I'm trying to create a simple DVD from some RED footage and having a miserable time getting decent results. The project is mastered in 1080P and my method is simply selecting MPEG2-DVD in the export settings and changing the bitrate to CBR. I used a bitrate calculator to calculate that 3mins of video is about 9mbs. I checked max render quality and let it go. The outputted m2v file I then burned with Titatanium toast. The output is really, really bad. Blocky, blurry video with small black bars on left/right of image. I know you can use Encore but because this is trial & error I don't want to transcode every time. I'd rather transcode in PPro and then fiddle with trying to get it on a disc.

Any suggestions/help?

Cheers.

 

[Rogelio Salinas]

What aspect ratio are you using?

 

[Karl Soule]

Okay, at the top of the Export Settings panel, you mention that you're selecting MPEG2-DVD as the Format, but under that, what Preset are you starting with?

You say 1080p, but what's the frame rate?

If you are mastering 1080p/23.976fps, then start with the preset called NTSC 23.976p Widescreen High Quality and go from there.

If you are mastering 1080p/30 or 60p, then start with the preset called NTSC Progressive Widescreen High Quality.

What is the reason for using CBR? Constant Bit Rate is kind of a "brute force" way of encoding that doesn't take into account the content being encoded. Typically, you'll get better quality using VBR, and 2-pass (while taking longer) will give best results.

 

[Karl Soule]

You can check for black bars by toggling between the Source tab and the Output tab.

 

[Elsie N]

Hey all

So I'm a bit of a noob with Premiere Pro after switching from FCP, especially where RED footage is concerned. However, I'm trying to create a simple DVD from some RED footage and having a miserable time getting decent results. The project is mastered in 1080P and my method is simply selecting MPEG2-DVD in the export settings and changing the bitrate to CBR. I used a bitrate calculator to calculate that 3mins of video is about 9mbs. I checked max render quality and let it go. The outputted m2v file I then burned with Titatanium toast. The output is really, really bad. Blocky, blurry video with small black bars on left/right of image. I know you can use Encore but because this is trial & error I don't want to transcode every time. I'd rather transcode in PPro and then fiddle with trying to get it on a disc.

Any suggestions/help?

Cheers.

It takes a while but for me, I export to (if memory serves, an MPEG 2) Blu-Ray file, then in Encore import the saved video and audio as a separate asset, put them in a timeline and "build" and burn as a DVD. Yes, it does take some extra encoding, but I've had some who watch the video on a big TV screen forget they aren't watching Blu-Ray.

 

[Al Lougher]

Here's the settings I used last night. Took 3.5hrs to export a 3min clip (yikes!). I was able to fix the side black bars by applying slight cropping to the top/bottom. Apparently the DVD export setting doesn't use a standard 1:1 square pixel so the result is (from what I understand) a slightly overscanned image but won't show up on a regular TV.

All said and done, the results are still crap. I'm going to try the Blu-ray approach that Elsie recommended and see if that is any better.

 

[Brad Allen]

Hey all

So I'm a bit of a noob with Premiere Pro after switching from FCP, especially where RED footage is concerned. However, I'm trying to create a simple DVD from some RED footage and having a miserable time getting decent results. The project is mastered in 1080P and my method is simply selecting MPEG2-DVD in the export settings and changing the bitrate to CBR. I used a bitrate calculator to calculate that 3mins of video is about 9mbs. I checked max render quality and let it go. The outputted m2v file I then burned with Titatanium toast. The output is really, really bad. Blocky, blurry video with small black bars on left/right of image. I know you can use Encore but because this is trial & error I don't want to transcode every time. I'd rather transcode in PPro and then fiddle with trying to get it on a disc.

Any suggestions/help?

Cheers.

Hey Al,

I'm not going to be much help to you in this response but just wanted to ask if you could outline a few of the most confusing things you are finding to do with Exporting in Premiere currently coming from a FCP workflow. Now that CS6 is upon us, I'll be putting that exporting tutorial together soon, but want to make sure it is as helpful as possible for you guys coming from FCP.

Also, this doesn't directly fix your problem, but to reduce the amount of re-encodes you are doing from your timeline - why don't you spit out a ProRes or DNxHD file and then transcode that into MPEG-2? At least that way when you play with export tests, it won't take quite so long to see the result! Cuts out that whole 5k debayer process repeating over and over and over.....

 

[Brad Allen]

Hey Al, just taking a quick look, those settings are looking on the mark - not a whole lot I would change. Maybe bump up the Target Rate to 6.5 and the min Rate to 5mb. Also could try ticking the "render at Max depth" checkbox - don't think it will make a difference but it's not going to hurt either way.

Just wondering if you can post a sample of what your resulting MPEG-2 file is looking like? Either a screen shot or a 10sec sample video? Sometimes I forget just how bad SD DVD looks compared to the crisp HD images we usually see while editing...

 

[Al Lougher]

Hey Brad, I'm fairly new to the whole RED process so hadn't tried the ProRes workflow yet. Maybe I'll give that a try next. I wouldn't say that the exporting from PPro is confusing, rather I am questioning the quality of their encoding engine. I will say that I do find Encore to be a bit puzzling, because the settings seem to be in multiple places and don't seem to be directly tied to each other, which is kinda odd, but that could be a whole new topic altogether. Overall, I would certainly be interested in a tutorial that outlined the best process for producing the highest quality results whether it be Web, DVD, Blu or whatever delivery format.

Cheers.

 

[Brad Allen]

Hey Brad, I'm fairly new to the whole RED process so hadn't tried the ProRes workflow yet. Maybe I'll give that a try next. I wouldn't say that the exporting from PPro is confusing, rather I am questioning the quality of their encoding engine. I will say that I do find Encore to be a bit puzzling, because the settings seem to be in multiple places and don't seem to be directly tied to each other, which is kinda odd, but that could be a whole new topic altogether. Overall, I would certainly be interested in a tutorial that outlined the best process for producing the highest quality results whether it be Web, DVD, Blu or whatever delivery format.

Cheers.

Good to know.

Oh and I hope I didn't confuse you - I didn't mean to suggest replace your R3D's on the timeline with ProRes files! All I meant was to do a ProRes export out of Premiere (just as you are exporting out MPEG-2 currently). Then use that newly created ProRes file to re-encode to MPEG-2.

Maybe you understood that - just wanted to make sure you didn't think I was advocating transcoding all of your R3D's into ProRes

 

[Al Lougher]

Hey Al, just taking a quick look, those settings are looking on the mark - not a whole lot I would change. Maybe bump up the Target Rate to 6.5 and the min Rate to 5mb. Also could try ticking the "render at Max depth" checkbox - don't think it will make a difference but it's not going to hurt either way.

Just wondering if you can post a sample of what your resulting MPEG-2 file is looking like? Either a screen shot or a 10sec sample video? Sometimes I forget just how bad SD DVD looks compared to the crisp HD images we usually see while editing...

Here's an example of how the RED logo looks:

But yeah maybe it's because I've been looking at HD for so long that standard def looks like crud. But I don't recall it looking this bad.

 

[Brad Allen]

Are you able to upload a 100% frame size? Just downloaded that image to inspect it but it had a resolution of 1023x519?

Also bear in mind that Non-Square pixel aspect ratio exports can often look quite blocky and disgusting on computer monitors - it might be worth just doing a test export with square pixels (872x486 for a 16:9 image at NSTC SD size). This will help you see if it's the non-square pixels that are messing with your mind on the other exports...

 

[Al Lougher]

Are you able to upload a 100% frame size? Just downloaded that image to inspect it but it had a resolution of 1023x519?

Also bear in mind that Non-Square pixel aspect ratio exports can often look quite blocky and disgusting on computer monitors - it might be worth just doing a test export with square pixels (872x486 for a 16:9 image at NSTC SD size). This will help you see if it's the non-square pixels that are messing with your mind on the other exports...

Good call. I am looking at this on a 27" mac so maybe that's what's throwing me off. I'll give that a try and report back..

 

[Johnny Friday]

why don't you spit out a ProRes or DNxHD file and then transcode that into MPEG-2? At least that way when you play with export tests, it won't take quite so long to see the result! Cuts out that whole 5k debayer process repeating over and over and over.....

Brad, you are suggesting this so he has a master yes? Can you point to what advantage if any DNxHD has over say Tiff? I suppose you can make a master from your timeline material to either of these codecs, then export out to prores from there.....but not having used DNxHD I was wondering how that may differ from Tiffs....
...AND, i'm going to side-jack the thread, but with purpose....Al mentions 3.5 hours of encoding for a 3min video....I am running off of CS 5.5 and CS 6....and a 52minute video with up to 6 tracks of video, mixed codecs from R3d to AVCHD (four codecs actually)...AND plenty of Premier effects applied as well as 3rd party effects from Colorista, Neat video and Mercali for stabilization (not too many applied from neat and mercali)...I'm getting render times showing 28hours.... So Al is seeing about 1.15 hr of encoding for each minute of video...I'm looking at a ratio of around 52mins of video at 28 hours of encoding....for a ratio of .54hr/min of video....Oh--i want to point out that i was looking at render times of up to 50 hours on CS 5.5 and then stopped it after 4 hours of encoding and tried out CS 6 and then it dropped to 28hour range.....This is SIGNIFICANT....this all said, i'm running a macpro 8 core w/32gigs ram, Quadra 4000 card and redrocket card.....Firstly...i'm surprised i can even do this...but these render times seem correct we are seeing? For some reason i would just expect a faster encode....

Sorry about the two parter there....but very interesting for us coming over from FCP and all the new adobe tricks....certainly i have found that you MUST check NVIDIA site regular for any graphics card updates.

ps...i'm going to post this same on my current thread about working with premier on my doc

 

[Brad Allen]

Brad, you are suggesting this so he has a master yes? Can you point to what advantage if any DNxHD has over say Tiff? I suppose you can make a master from your timeline material to either of these codecs, then export out to prores from there.....but not having used DNxHD I was wondering how that may differ from Tiffs....

Hey Johnny - you are correct - I'm just suggesting ProRes or DNxHD for a Master to re-encode from. The only advantage DNxHD has over Tiff is that file size is smaller and it's all in one file (which can be a plus and a minus in and of itself). Tiff is a better choice if you want an uncompressed master to work from. I think of DNxHD as an open version of ProRes (with some caveats). Only reason I mentioned it was because I didn't know if Al was currently on a Mac or PC and DNxHD is open for encoding on both PC and Mac whereas ProRes is only open on Mac

...AND, i'm going to side-jack the thread, but with purpose....Al mentions 3.5 hours of encoding for a 3min video....I am running off of CS 5.5 and CS 6....and a 52minute video with up to 6 tracks of video, mixed codecs from R3d to AVCHD (four codecs actually)...AND plenty of Premier effects applied as well as 3rd party effects from Colorista, Neat video and Mercali for stabilization (not too many applied from neat and mercali)...I'm getting render times showing 28hours.... So Al is seeing about 1.15 hr of encoding for each minute of video...I'm looking at a ratio of around 52mins of video at 28 hours of encoding....for a ratio of .54hr/min of video....Oh--i want to point out that i was looking at render times of up to 50 hours on CS 5.5 and then stopped it after 4 hours of encoding and tried out CS 6 and then it dropped to 28hour range.....This is SIGNIFICANT....this all said, i'm running a macpro 8 core w/32gigs ram, Quadra 4000 card and redrocket card.....Firstly...i'm surprised i can even do this...but these render times seem correct we are seeing? For some reason i would just expect a faster encode....

Wow, those are some huge render times to say the least! They sound about right with the amount of additional effects and processing you have laid ontop of all the clips. The fact that you are even able to export that without Premiere crashing is testament to how far Premiere has come over the last few years. They only thing that would be woth double checking is ensuring that your RedRocket is being used while exporting. Being that the Rocket can only used by one app at once, it would be quite easy to send your export out to Adobe Media Encoder via the Queue and forget that Premiere still had control of it

EDIT: Just saw in your other thread that you are exporting straight out of Premiere to avoid lockups. Looks like I spoke too soon! That should force it to use the Rocket doing it straight out with Premiere

 

[Greg Barley]

There was a resolution discussion along these lines here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77890-DVD-resolution-issues As I commented in that thread, the current version of Adobe Media Encoder (I still have CS5.5), and Apple Compressor for that matter, really don't do a very good job at 'scaling' footage. Myself and many others use any number of differing workflows to get a higher quality output when going to SD DVD's. The workflow I use (I mention it in the above thread link) is rather confusing if you've never done it, but it produces great results and razor sharp graphics in the final encode.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Hey Johnny - you are correct - I'm just suggesting ProRes or DNxHD for a Master to re-encode from. The only advantage DNxHD has over Tiff is that file size is smaller and it's all in one file (which can be a plus and a minus in and of itself). Tiff is a better choice if you want an uncompressed master to work from. I think of DNxHD as an open version of ProRes (with some caveats). Only reason I mentioned it was because I didn't know if Al was currently on a Mac or PC and DNxHD is open for encoding on both PC and Mac whereas ProRes is only open on Mac


Wow, those are some huge render times to say the least! They sound about right with the amount of additional effects and processing you have laid ontop of all the clips. The fact that you are even able to export that without Premiere crashing is testament to how far Premiere has come over the last few years. They only thing that would be woth double checking is ensuring that your RedRocket is being used while exporting. Being that the Rocket can only used by one app at once, it would be quite easy to send your export out to Adobe Media Encoder via the Queue and forget that Premiere still had control of it

EDIT: Just saw in your other thread that you are exporting straight out of Premiere to avoid lockups. Looks like I spoke too soon! That should force it to use the Rocket doing it straight out with Premiere

Brad....yes, i'm amazed i can do this as well...never did i think. BUT DAMN!!! you brought up something Significant...I still have premier in the background...I totally FORGOT about premier releasing the Rocket Card...this NEEDS to be a feature request....an easy way to KNOW and toggle ON/OFF the RR card...that said, maybe i should pm you on HOW to release from Premier to AME? can this be done on the fly or am in now locked in--now that i'm half way through my ENCODE on AME ? AND how do we do this anyway in Premier--Release from Pr to AME or AE ? --- in my other thread i did an encode direct from PrPro--but then stopped it since it seemed to have problems in 5.5 .....

 

[Al Lougher]

Following Elsie's suggestion of exporting MPEG2-BLURAY from PPro first and then use Encore to transcode and press the disc took 1/3 of the time of exporting MPEG2-DVD from PPro. How weird is that? I'm assuming that because I mastered in 1080P it is not having to do the scale and transcode together which in turn is faster. I'll report back with the quality differences between the two shortly.

 

[Brad Allen]

Brad....yes, i'm amazed i can do this as well...never did i think. BUT DAMN!!! you brought up something Significant...I still have premier in the background...I totally FORGOT about premier releasing the Rocket Card...this NEEDS to be a feature request....an easy way to KNOW and toggle ON/OFF the RR card...that said, maybe i should pm you on HOW to release from Premier to AME? can this be done on the fly or am in now locked in--now that i'm half way through my ENCODE on AME ? AND how do we do this anyway in Premier--Release from Pr to AME or AE ? --- in my other thread i did an encode direct from PrPro--but then stopped it since it seemed to have problems in 5.5 .....

Hey Johnny,

Feel free to PM me so we don't derail this thread too far

I don't have a RedRocket installed in my system, but I'm sure we should be able to work it out between the two of us

I'm just about to head to bed on this side of the world, so if I don't reply to the PM, you will know why...

 

[Benjamin May]

Elsie,

The audio was lost in creating the Encore timeline m2v file. do you export that separately from PPro? If so, how do you export it?