Premiere CS5

[Santiago Marti]

my guess is that they are only listing cards they have physically tested. the current nvidia driver release which includes the officially supported fx4800 gives CUDA 3.0 support to the following cards:FX 350, FX 3800, FX 1700, FX 540, CX, FX 4600, FX 4000, FX 5600, FX 4700 X2, FX 3700, FX 3400/4400, FX 570, FX 380, FX 560, FX 370, FX 5500, FX 580, FX 1500, FX 4800, FX 370 Low Profile, FX 3450, FX 4500, FX 3500, FX 1400, FX 1800, FX 4500 X2, FX 5800, FX 550

http://www.nvidia.com/object/Quadro_winxp_x64_197.03_whql.html

I have a notebook with an fx 1700 and a workstation with a quadro cx. The workstation with the quadro cx gets full acceleration, and the notebook doesn't, so, if you have to buy a card now, and get CS5 when it's available, follow the list. Otherwise wait for an upgraded list.

 

[Joshua Marchlewski]

It's been several years, but I had worked quite a bit in Premiere and Final Cut. Never long projects, only commercial and promotion work. Now I'm looking at editing a feature. Especially after seeing the mercury demo on the cs5 site, unless Apple comes out with something amazing this year I'm leaning toward Adobe. Aside from the timecode issue that came up several times in this thread (which they seem to have fixed), what other things about Adobe would make it unsuitable (versus Final Cut) for editing in a red workflow? I want to do this thing right.

 

[alexx_hg]

... Aside from the timecode issue that came up several times in this thread (which they seem to have fixed), what other things about Adobe would make it unsuitable...

if they don´t come out with the new RED CS plug in...

bg
alex

 

[Steve Sherrick]

You guys should all come watch Adobe's presentation at the Reduser event in Vegas.

 

[Joshua Marchlewski]

if they don´t come out with the new RED CS plug in...

Yeah, I imagine that would be a pretty big issue with Epic footage around the corner. With the way they are pursuing Red users, that doesn't seem likely though.

Company dynamics aside, are there specific flaws or problems in PP that FCP doesn't have? And to turn it around, what are the shortcomings of FCP? What about the fact that PP has been able to handle R3D files for quite a while and FCP still doesn't? Do the pros of FCP outweigh the con of having to work in proxy?

I am certainly not trying to start a loyalty battle over these two suites. I've been out of this stuff for a bit and I want to know what I'm getting into. From what I can see right now, it seems adobe is pulling ahead with CS5. What do you guys think?

 

[Scott Miller]

Steve,

I hope to be there Tuesday or Wednesday

Heard a wild rumor that they will be showing/using some of the footage we shot for Squaw the Documentary StD is being cut on CS5 Mac with the Mercury engine.

(Apologies for the blatant self promotion!)

 

[Uli Plank]

In my eyes the biggest drawback of PPro is the support for separate audio – it sucks. But CS5 looks very promising speedwise, as you all have seen.

 

[Paul Toth]

Company dynamics aside, are there specific flaws or problems in PP that FCP doesn't have? And to turn it around, what are the shortcomings of FCP? What about the fact that PP has been able to handle R3D files for quite a while and FCP still doesn't? Do the pros of FCP outweigh the con of having to work in proxy?

I am certainly not trying to start a loyalty battle over these two suites. I've been out of this stuff for a bit and I want to know what I'm getting into. From what I can see right now, it seems adobe is pulling ahead with CS5. What do you guys think?

I have always found this question interesting. I currently use both Avid and Adobe CS4. I have owned Avid for many years and Adobe for just as long. I have cut on FCP, Speed Razor, and many more (oh yeah, and on 'tape' based systems - for many years!!! ACE and Sony editors)... So here's my take on this:

They all 'do' the same things at the end of the day. Yup: cut, dissolve, wipe if that's your thing... What I find different is the method you will use with one vs the other(s). I can cut a feature on CS4, on Avid, FCP even on a consumer grade editor (although I'm sure that would be painful). My answer to these questions then becomes, which editor do you know the best? Which computer system do you prefer? (MAC or PC - I find them to be identical BTW and I have used both a lot - in fact the PC quite often seemed faster than the mac, both running the same versions of apps).

If you have no knowledge or preference, then what I like about CS4 is the integration between Apps (Premiere, After Effects, Photoshop) HUGE time saver! But I like the color correction in Avid better. I didn't enjoy cutting on FCP, it didn't seem as intuitive as I thought it should have...

So my thought is: which system method/workflow seems to fit what you are trying to achieve the best: Then choose that and go edit.

 

[Paul Toth]

In my eyes the biggest drawback of PPro is the support for separate audio – it sucks.

I curious to know what you mean by this?

I find that cutting audio in PPro using the wave sample plot on the timeline is NOT accurate visually although it IS aurally, whereas on Avid it is bang on for both.

 

[Joshua Marchlewski]

I have always found this question interesting. I currently use both Avid and Adobe CS4. I have owned Avid for many years and Adobe for just as long. I have cut on FCP, Speed Razor, and many more (oh yeah, and on 'tape' based systems - for many years!!! ACE and Sony editors)... So here's my take on this:

They all 'do' the same things at the end of the day. Yup: cut, dissolve, wipe if that's your thing... What I find different is the method you will use with one vs the other(s). I can cut a feature on CS4, on Avid, FCP even on a consumer grade editor (although I'm sure that would be painful). My answer to these questions then becomes, which editor do you know the best? Which computer system do you prefer? (MAC or PC - I find them to be identical BTW and I have used both a lot - in fact the PC quite often seemed faster than the mac, both running the same versions of apps).

If you have no knowledge or preference, then what I like about CS4 is the integration between Apps (Premiere, After Effects, Photoshop) HUGE time saver! But I like the color correction in Avid better. I didn't enjoy cutting on FCP, it didn't seem as intuitive as I thought it should have...

So my thought is: which system method/workflow seems to fit what you are trying to achieve the best: Then choose that and go edit.

Thanks, Paul. That's how I felt when I worked on them before. I do like the integration between apps and I've used more adobe than apple software over the years. That is a significant consideration. I won't worry about it anymore.

 

[Uli Plank]

I meant the fact that until now PPro is not syncing video and audio automatically based on TC.

 

[shashbugu]

For me the main thing FCP has going for it vs PPro are media management, XML, Apple Color, quick compositing, Compressor, Long form editing Stability and smpte based audio syncing. But that is the past lets wait to see what CS5 brings.

 

[Linda Nelson]

CS5 Official Launch is April 12th

CS5 Official Launch is April 12th

Everyone gets to see CS5 on April 12th. Check out the countdown on Facebook We are part of the beta and are so impressed. Our feature length film shot on RED loads incredibly fast on a single timeline and we are just starting color correction. We're using a Quadro NVidia card that outputs to a 42" flat panel. We went straight from the camera to the timeline and can easily output to h264 or any other format we need quickly with no pre-rendering. You can see the promotional teaser on YouTube.

 

[Tim Morten]

Any word on whether CS5 actually ships this month, or is 4/12 just an announcement of when they are going to ship? There have been rumors that ship date won't be until Fall...

 

[scott william]

What exactly is PP CS5 claiming to do with R3d’s?

This idea of 2 videos layers of 4k in real-time sounds way to good to be true. Are we talking 4k in full res here?

If so i can't see a need for cineform othen then for it's avi's...

 

[Hayhurst]

Any word on whether CS5 actually ships this month, or is 4/12 just an announcement of when they are going to ship? There have been rumors that ship date won't be until Fall...

We have a long history of announcing close to ship, seem a shame to break that tradition

 

[Hayhurst]

What exactly is PP CS5 claiming to do with R3d’s?

This idea of 2 videos layers of 4k in real-time sounds way to good to be true. Are we talking 4k in full res here?

If so i can't see a need for cineform othen then for it's avi's...

The demos posted so far show 4 native 4K R3Ds, which you can stack with multiple effects on each, and display at HD direct to your monitor. No pre-rendering, conversion required. For that we de-bayer etc on the fly at 2K then run it through the pipeline.

Did I mention that with GPU acceleration we work in Linear Color and full 32 bit floating point all the time ? Basically looks as good as CS4 with Max Render quality, but renderless. Very important for the kind of work you folk on this forum do.

That's on a Z800 16 core. We're also starting some testing on the new Intel 24 core with faster disk ---- I don't think we've worked out where the limit is yet.

 

[Hayhurst]

I have a notebook with an fx 1700 and a workstation with a quadro cx. The workstation with the quadro cx gets full acceleration, and the notebook doesn't, so, if you have to buy a card now, and get CS5 when it's available, follow the list. Otherwise wait for an upgraded list.

We're optimizing to a small set of CUDA GPUs for a couple of reasons. Firstly it's allowing us to really tune, and to test for stability. We won't be adding more of the old GeForce lines, nor current Quadro cards, but we will be adding Fermi cards. GeForce 480 is running very nicely in the lab. That's probably the only GeForce card we'll do, then we'll look to add something like 2 or 3 of the Fermi Quadro cards when they're shipping.

We're looking hard at Laptop solutions, but we're going to have to do solve some hard problems because of system and GPU bandwidth limitations. New "mobile workstations" (think HP power laptops etc) with mobile Quadro (particuilarly Fermi versions) will probably be the first ones to see real performance gains.

 

[Hayhurst]

Interesting. Thanks for pointers. If the GTX 295 becomes listed as compatible is it worth pickin up rather than the GTX 285 - if I can get one cheaper than RRP?

By the looks of things the new GTX cards that are being released are being slated for being power hungry and not outstanding in performance. It is hard to say till they are actually released. I might buy a GTX 285 then upgrade in six months when the CS5 has come out and the compatibility list is adjusted properly.

We're seeing very significant performance gains with Fermi. That's all I can say right now

 

[Hayhurst]

I just watched a video with Adobe guys touting CS5 64bit capabilities.
http://www.postmagazine.com/Media/VideoLibrary/Adobe7 Dan Web.mov

The interviews made me realize that Adobe has excellent engineers but zero knowledge about professional editing. Its like putting a jet engine into a purported race-car with no steering wheel or tires. Premiere Pro CS4 as it stands has few valuable Professional editing features.

I do understand they are re-writing the entire suite for 64 bits, such an undertaking takes some effort and resources. But common sense dictates if architects are going to re-build a fort, they have to get detailed information from the generals or soldiers about the weaknesses of the old fort and recommendations on how the new fort will best serve them. This production cycle should have been the best time to take the fat out of AE and make it a lean mean compositing machine or make a real Premiere "PRO".

For anyone on this forum to think Apple is sleeping or not listening is a huge mistake. Apple is a design and marketing company. Take a look at all their pro apps, they have collaborated with professionals in each specific industry to release products with exceptional user experiences. 64 bit is their new catch phrase. From Snow Leopard to Logic al their apps is moving in that direction. Final cut studio is a half a billion dollar revenue product for Apple, they will not take its development lightly. Apple Motion has been GPU accelerated for a long time, there is nothing CS5 is doing that Apple can't potentially do. Just like Adobe they have been reported to be re-writing all their apps to 64 bit from scratch, but unlike Adobe they are not scared to go after the big Dogs like Autodesk or Avid. We all know down the line they will sell OSX as an expensive stand alone "Operating System for regular PC's, further increasing their market reach with their pro apps. Thats inevitable.

I do realize that as a software only company Adobe has to cater to a prosumer user base than they would professionals, but why then would they develop pro apps like coldfusion, Flex etc.

I know me and a million other worldwide Pro users would pay $1500 for Adobe Smoke (PPRO, AE, AUDITION, COLOR, 3D)

Do not get me wrong Adobe is an application programming genius and leader in many professional fields, photography, print, web, Multimedia etc. But when it comes to Film and video, they are still years behind. Simply because they fail to take advice from industry user/technologist like Ben Grossman, Stu M, Gareth Edwards, etc etc, Simply put these guys have been hammering at Adobe's doors for the past decade, have built businesses on Adobe's apps but have only been invited in to only demo finished products. Adobe Should have been paying these guys to design user experiences and products. Remember Stu designed Magic bullet, colorista, looks and Mojo for Red Giant. Adobe has spent most of its time relying on web video and motion graphics experts, which is not a bad thing, but REALLY!!!!!!! AE should be renamed "Adobe motion graphics animation thingy"

I HOPE SOMEONE FROM ADOBE IS READING THIS

Reading, listening and taking requests for "Beyond CS5". Let me know what you want ... on-list, or shoot me a message off list at simon at Adobe.com