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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

preferred frame rates for future 4K media sales ?

M Most said:
2014 and 2013 are identical at the moment. If you want to make pictures for yourself, you can do whatever you want. If you want to make something that someone might eventually buy, and that appropriately represents the time in which it was made, Mark's advice is right on the money.
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Zakaree Sandberg said:
I refuse to watch any movie that was not shot at 24

I want reality and cinema to look different
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That's why I choose 48 fps... so my projects can be shown at 24 fps at the present and then, perhaps in 5 years time, can be re-released in 48 fps timebase.

I'm just looking for the compromise shutter speed that works best when viewed at 24 fps and 48 fps.
 
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Hi Les,

All personal preferences aside, I would suggest contacting the outlets where you are planning to sell this material and ask them what they prefer and what sells the best/ is used the most ? I have always contacted my clients for the specs before proceeding with anything . The same holds true even if this is your own personal work and you plan to sell it eventually. What is the most likely market and what do they want?

I also think that if the work is good enough, then the client will find a way to make it work even if the frame rate is not a perfect fit. I think trying to appease all potential future client needs will ultimately be a waste of your time.

See what the market wants. If you are shooting on RED you already have the resolution part covered.

My 2 cents,

Bill
 
Smokin'

Smokin'

Mark L. Pederson said:
Not sure what Blair is smokin' tonight - I think he's confusing shutter speed with equivalent degree calculation. 1/96th of second shutter speed at 48fps is equal to 180 degree shutter. You don't wanna shoot 48fps with a 360 degree shutter.
Shoot 24fps and your future will be just fine.
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Not confused, at least not on this ;-). If you shoot 48@360 shutter then each frame is exposed for 1/48th of a second. If you shoot 24@180 each frame is exposed for 1/48th of a second - think of the space in time when the other frame is being made (then discarded) as the same as the time the shutter would otherwise be closed. I advocated this approach for Les as the 24fps version you extract from the 48fps material will have motion blur characteristics that match 24@180 which, in the near term at least, is what your footage is likely to be cut in with.

I can see the argument for 48@240 which allows for pulling a 24@120 version and for fast action it might be a better choice. That said, I stand by my advice as I believe the best prospect for near term sales is to be able to extract a version that best matches most current production with the potential to suit those looking for HFR.

Maybe I need to send Mark better stuff to smoke, I think they make the THC just up the road in Irvine ;-)

Cheers - #19
 
120@360! ;) Thats where "hypercinema" (i think it was called somewhere that way) starts to allow plenty of options by just dropping and blending frames. Imagine direct support in RCX for that.

More realistically speaking i like the idea of shooting 48 or 60 and just using 24/30 by now. Being safe for the future and ready for experiments is something and i really like the idea to use varialbe framerates in a piece, depending on content.

Those additional frames can also be helpful for stuff like tracking. Damn, i need to upgrade to a EPIC to play with that stuff. ;)

And Peter Jackons's approach (48@270) seems also to be a good compromise, i'm not so sure about 360 as "final look", never really liked it so far.
 
I second Blair. I often shoot 48fps at 1/48 (mostly if I am not sure whether I will want the shot overcranked or not - it lets me choose after). The big brains (i.e. Peter Jackson) likely tested and tested. They decided on 48fps and split the difference between 1/48 and 1/96 thus arriving at 1/72 unless I am mistaken. This seems like another logical/flexible option. That said I don't see myself shooting hfr. I am experimenting with dramatic shots at less than 24fps. I guess I am thinking bass ackwards.
 
Best generic suggestion, YMWV

Best generic suggestion, YMWV

Nothing personal James, but PJ was shooting S3D and HFR and had at least 4 major deliverables that needed to be based on the practical photography, plus, lots of VFX to integrate. I'd hardly consider his particular situation a cogent example for determining a 2014 stock shooting strategy.

IAC, I still advocate 48@360 since it offers a simple alternate frame extraction option that yields identical motion blur to 24@180 elements -AND- can be used for HFR or overcrank when desired. Since the OP wanted predictions on how format/frame rate choices might influence the shelf life for 4K media, something I have thought about at length, I noted the advantages I see for 48@360. Same stop and lighting requirements as 24@180, better compression ratios than a 60FPS recording, etc.

Cheers - #19
 
PatrickFaith said:
I'm going to start cutting over to shooting 96 fps @ 360 shutter. That way i can go 24@180 for film environment, 48@180 hyper reality setups and 96@360 for immersive installs.
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Yep, 96@360 already gives some nice options.
 
Not sure how shooting for multiple delivery formats makes it irrelevant. Part of the argument for HFR is smoother motion and sharper imagery. At least some of that can be achieved through faster shutter speeds. Now shooting 24fps at very high shutter speeds although it has it´s place in motion picture aethetics is quite jarring if used for everything shot.
 
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