Powering the Epic: Redvolt XL vs V-Lock Batteries

[Brian Choy]

Hi All,

So I'm having a little dilemma in my own head trying to figure out the best long-term power solution/investment for myself. I feel like it's a tie between Redvolt XLs and V-mount batteries. I recently ordered an Epic and went with an XL module + 2 Redvolt XLs (sans quad charger as I haven't decided if I NEED it with the ability to charge from the module) before coming across the post quoted below:

Here is a cost/performance comparison of the Redvolt XL system compared to the V mount system. I've gone with a Global Media Pro battery as it can't be beaten for cost/performance/reliability. The Bebob charger and Viewfactor battery plate aren't the cheapest, but they are built tough. If you wanted to go cheaper you could go with the WC battery plate, GMP SCA2S charger + GMP Li95S-HW-R battery and come in at $663. But I cant vouch for the quality of the WC battery plate or GMP charger.Apart from the faster recharge time and 0B Aux Power there isn't much benefit over the V mount system. But what really clinches it is the fact that you can walk into pretty much any quality camera rental/sales company in the world and they'll have V-mount batteries for sale/rent. Plus V mount batteries also power all sorts of hardware like LED lights, monitors, wireless transmitters, steadicam rigs etc. Add a D-Tap to USB and you can even charge your Iphone. The fact they are available in larger capacities is pretty huge too. And once they no longer hold their charge, they can be re-celled quite economically.The weight difference isn't too much of an issue. But to put it into perspective, the 87g difference is 1/5th of the 453g difference between the standard Dragon Epic and Carbon Dragon Epic. And people are willing to pay a $21k premium for that.The Redvolt XL module will charge the battery though. But removing the Quad battery charger and adding an DSMC AC Power Adaptor still puts the whole setup at $1,650...

So now it's got me thinking... Where's the justification for the more expensive Redvolt XLs vs a less expensive VM solution if we're comparing 89WH XLs to 95WH VMs in which the VMs are lighter, more widely available, and more capable (higher WH rating, taps for power, etc.)? Hopefully looking for some Redvolt XL + XL module users to chime in. I already have the XLs in my possession, so there's no returning/turning back at this point. I do travel a bit for work (I believe the 95WH batteries are rated for travel), and I suppose there's the convenience that the XLs take up less space when packing, but I'm now starting to feel limited with power options seeing as that you can buy/rent larger VM batteries with higher WH ratings. All input is appreciated. I may just be overthinking this without having really done any real life testing yet, but I just wanted to throw this out there. :mad2: This is a large and personal investment that I've made, and I just need some assurance that I've made the right choice. Thanks, everyone!

EDIT: In addition, which V-mount system would you guys recommend as the sturdiest and most reliable?

 

[Milan S.]

The good:
I use Redvolt XL/Redvolt for documentary style shooting and bare bones set up for run and gun. The camera is significantly more compact and somewhat lighter with a Redvolt XL module than it is with a V-lock battery of the similar capacity. You also eliminate cables
In addition, with a Quad module you can hot swap batteries and have extended recording times for longer takes - though this brings the camera back into the Red 1 weight range, heaavy.
Quad module also allows you to attach a Redmote on the back.

The bad:
- The Quad charger is unreliable - often refuses to charge batteries and is prone to failing.
- The XLs are a bit fragile. They rattle and casing seems not very robust. I haven't dropped one yet, I hope I don't get to find out what's inside.
- Redvolts never show a full charge - never.
- Ejecting XLs from the Quad module is extremely awkward. You need lady fingers with strong nails. No fun in cold weather either.

 

[Julio Quintana]

V-mounts and Anton Bauer are the standard for professional cameras, so it is way easier to find additional batteries and chargers for your shoots if you have either of those. As a result, these options make your camera much more flexible/desirable for rentals on high end productions.

But if you purchased your camera for personal use, then the only thing that matters is if the Redvolt XLs meet your needs. If so, just have a glass of whiskey and sleep peacefully

 

[Wil Wong]

Here's my 2 cents...

V-Mount / AB Batteries BETTER IF:
• You plan to rent out your gear

• You plan to shoot for clients as a cinematographer /Camer Op / DOP etc. (why? cause they are industry standard and can work with other stuff like lights and monitors...meaning only having to buy one type of batteries).

• Clients tend to need time staring at the shot before even recording. They like adjusting the lighting and checking make-up and can literally let the camera stay on for 30 minutes before even recording a single take.

• Shooting a long continuous take (like Act 1 of a theatre production or concert).


Red volts and XL BETTER IF:
• Trying to shoot inconspicuously...like in public.

• Keeping your system light weight and small as possible (like DSLR) especially when you have to move quickly

In my opinion, if this camera is just for your use, xl batteries will be fine. If you plan to have clients, they are still alright but granted you won't be using them to power lights or other stuff (you'll have to get other types to do that which means more chargers to plug in at the end of the day).

Personally, V-mount batteries are cheaper and last longer if money is an issue. Buying more v-mount batteries is better then having less Red XL. I also like Red volts over the XL due to the size and having a dual power system helps especially when the v-mount is just about dead and you need to finish that one quick shot.

 

[Brian Choy]

The good:
I use Redvolt XL/Redvolt for documentary style shooting and bare bones set up for run and gun. The camera is significantly more compact and somewhat lighter with a Redvolt XL module than it is with a V-lock battery of the similar capacity. You also eliminate cables
In addition, with a Quad module you can hot swap batteries and have extended recording times for longer takes - though this brings the camera back into the Red 1 weight range, heaavy.
Quad module also allows you to attach a Redmote on the back.

The bad:
- The Quad charger is unreliable - often refuses to charge batteries and is prone to failing.
- The XLs are a bit fragile. They rattle and casing seems not very robust. I haven't dropped one yet, I hope I don't get to find out what's inside.
- Redvolts never show a full charge - never.
- Ejecting XLs from the Quad module is extremely awkward. You need lady fingers with strong nails. No fun in cold weather either.

V-mounts and Anton Bauer are the standard for professional cameras, so it is way easier to find additional batteries and chargers for your shoots if you have either of those. As a result, these options make your camera much more flexible/desirable for rentals on high end productions.

But if you purchased your camera for personal use, then the only thing that matters is if the Redvolt XLs meet your needs. If so, just have a glass of whiskey and sleep peacefully

Here's my 2 cents...

V-Mount / AB Batteries BETTER IF:
• You plan to rent out your gear

• You plan to shoot for clients as a cinematographer /Camer Op / DOP etc. (why? cause they are industry standard and can work with other stuff like lights and monitors...meaning only having to buy one type of batteries).

• Clients tend to need time staring at the shot before even recording. They like adjusting the lighting and checking make-up and can literally let the camera stay on for 30 minutes before even recording a single take.

• Shooting a long continuous take (like Act 1 of a theatre production or concert).


Red volts and XL BETTER IF:
• Trying to shoot inconspicuously...like in public.

• Keeping your system light weight and small as possible (like DSLR) especially when you have to move quickly

In my opinion, if this camera is just for your use, xl batteries will be fine. If you plan to have clients, they are still alright but granted you won't be using them to power lights or other stuff (you'll have to get other types to do that which means more chargers to plug in at the end of the day).

Personally, V-mount batteries are cheaper and last longer if money is an issue. Buying more v-mount batteries is better then having less Red XL. I also like Red volts over the XL due to the size and having a dual power system helps especially when the v-mount is just about dead and you need to finish that one quick shot.

Thanks everyone for the very helpful input. I should clarify that I mean I personally invested in it, but it will be used by me for my business! I currently have 2 XL and 2 RVs, which should get me a minimum of 3 hours of camera operation on a bare bones Epic Dragon with only a side handle and RED 7" Touch. My shoots are relatively short and I don't see myself needing an excess of 3 hours of power (especially with powering down between takes), but I'm thinking more into the long term investment side of things. I won't be renting it out, but I do want this to last me. I'm more worried now knowing that the quad charger has issues, especially because the XL Module takes significantly longer to recharge a battery.

 

[Matthew J]

Thanks everyone for the very helpful input. I should clarify that I mean I personally invested in it, but it will be used by me for my business! I currently have 2 XL and 2 RVs, which should get me a minimum of 3 hours of camera operation on a bare bones Epic Dragon with only a side handle and RED 7" Touch. My shoots are relatively short and I don't see myself needing an excess of 3 hours of power (especially with powering down between takes), but I'm thinking more into the long term investment side of things. I won't be renting it out, but I do want this to last me. I'm more worried now knowing that the quad charger has issues, especially because the XL Module takes significantly longer to recharge a battery.

I really don't understand the appeal of the whole RV XL system. It's almost double the price than a v-mount setup and locks you into a certain system. If you want to be more compact with the v-mounts and avoid cables, just get RED's v-mount plate that mounts onto the module adapter and rock it that way. That really shouldn't be much heavier than using the RV XL's.

 

[Mark Phelan]

When I had my R1 I used the RED bricks. I've used Anton Bauer on rentals and they worked as advertised. When I bought the Epic I decided to try the Redvolt system using both the Redvolts in the side grip and the XLs on back.

My observations are that the industry standard V mounts will be here for a long time so there is nothing wrong at all with sticking with them. The Redvolt system works very well keeping things tidy and small, which I like. But, the XLs don't work on the back with a gimbal, but neither would V mounts, but a V mount can be moved fairly easily. The Redvolts need a better way to do the same. Our modular cameras are modular only to a point and that needs a second look, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that RED is already looking into it.

For now, I'll stick with the Redvolt XLs because I prefer the neat, compact form function. But that's not to say I'm not considering adding V mount batteries or renting them as needed. I do agree with the capacity issue of how they never fully charge to 100%. Most I've seen has been much lower, so that is another consideration for using V mounts.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

If you never go above 90wh then sure REDVoltXLs are probably ok. But I regularly have 190wh batteries on my camera. Also I can P-Tap a number of accessories without an additional power distribution box. (P-Taps on battery and 2x on battery mount).

 

[Brian Choy]

As an update, I was able to return my XLs and XL module. Total plot twist, but upon further research (and I should've done this way earlier before making any purchases or decisions), I went the AB route for it's time and user proven reliability. I realize that it's slightly more expensive than going with V-mounts, but knowing that ABs are rock solid and easily available (at least in NYC and in the U.S.), it offers me more peace of mine that my power will be working as it should when I need it to.

 

[Mark Phelan]

One other point to add. I don't necessarily see this as an either/or situation. Much like the LCD/EVF conundrum, there can be a time and place for various power sources. I really do like to get the camera as small and light as possible and the Redvolts allow for that more so than AB or V mounts. If I'm running and gunning, I really don't care about having a D Tap.

Bottom line for me is I'll be using various power sources, just the way it is until RED comes up with a Mr. Fusion.

 

[Brian Choy]

One other point to add. I don't necessarily see this as an either/or situation. Much like the LCD/EVF conundrum, there can be a time and place for various power sources. I really do like to get the camera as small and light as possible and the Redvolts allow for that more so than AB or V mounts. If I'm running and gunning, I really don't care about having a D Tap.

Bottom line for me is I'll be using various power sources, just the way it is until RED comes up with a Mr. Fusion.

Well said! Thanks to everyone for being so helpful. I look forward to contributing more to the RED community!