Post your thoughts on film school

[dio Zafi]

Get a degree in something like Fine Art or Philosophy. Film doesn't need a degree. If you want to be a grip--go start working. If you want to be a writer or director go learn about philosophy and literature or get a degree in psychology and figure out how people tick. You can learn everything you need to know about film from a technical standpoint in like 45 minutes.

this…and I'm a film grad student…study Socrates..too..

 

[Steve Das]

this…and I'm a film grad student…study Socrates..too..

'Dumb and Dumber To' tops box office with $38.1

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

'Dumb and Dumber To' tops box office with $38.1

Didn't say you needed a degree in philosophy to make arthouse films. I just mean you'll be a better, more well rounded human being human being. Also in my experience comedians are pretty brilliant philosophical people. And cinematographers often spend lots of time studying at the feet of the masters for their insights on lighting and composition. Studying painting is more useful IMO than studying film. Either way film school isn't going to teach you how to make Dumb and Dumber any better than it's going to teach you how to make Boyhood.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. I still run into many film-makers who don't know the basics of lenses, photography, coverage, lighting, composition, and filtration - even with years experience in the business.

Basics of lenses can be covered in about 10 minutes.

Here is what a wide angle looks like. Here is what a telephoto looks like. Here is how a wide angle looks when moving forward backwards, here is how it looks side-to-side. Here is a telephoto. Here is what a telephoto looks like moving forward, here is what it looks like side-to-side. Here is a low angle. Here is a high angle. Here is an eye level. Notice how the perspective is different between the two. "Also by the way here is an anamorphic. All you need to know is that it makes the things out of focus all ovaly and it often flares likes this *Michael bay film*".

Moving onto photography.

You have Aperture. Aperture is a little hole in your lens. The small the number the bigger it gets the more things get out of focus. Also the smaller the number the brighter your exposure is.

This is your shutter. The longer your exposure is the more streaky things are. This is called motion blur. Also the longer your exposure (the lower the bottom number) the brighter things get.

Next up we have ISO. ISO on digital is how much you brighten the image in post. Every camera or film has a "rated number" and above and below that number you're just color correcting the image. Higher numbers than the native number and you're brightening your image. Lower numbers than the native number and you're darkening the image.

Next up we have "the Line". When you're cutting a montage it helps to keep people facing the same direction for simplicity. Imagine a line between two subjects, or a line through the direction your subject is facing/traveling in the case of one subject. Imagine this line running through the floor. Don't cross that line without first having a shot on the line.

Composition: Think about what you're trying to show. Think about what you're showing tells the audience. If it tells your audience something you want to say include it, otherwise don't. General rule though is to keep things on thirds.

Let's see we've got some time since we're about 45 minutes into our 45 minute film school... umm.... Framerate. Shoot at 24fps unless you have a reason not too. It looks slightly less smooth but it's generally considered less "cheap" looking. Shoot 60 fps if you need super reality. But even then you're dependent on your displays.

Compression

There is intraframe and interframe compression. Intraframe means each frame is compressed separately, interframe compression means that multiple frames are compressed together. There is no hard and fast rule on which is better it varies by codec.

Lighting:
The closer a light is the brighter it is. Some people will erroneously tell you it follows the inverse square law but that only applies to open face lights.

Color temperature:

Different lights have different color temperatures. Daylight is "5200k" there is a reason it's called that but all you need to know is it means blueish like the sky. Then there is tungsten which is your normal light bulb in your house and it's "warmer" at "3200k". Avoid consumer flourescents because they look odd colors. If you want to use a daylight bulb with a tungsten bulb or a tungsten bulb with daylight you can use Blue and orange filters.

This is a C-Stand. Twist this knob, it loosens up. Lights go on it. Twist the knob on the light to tighten it. Put a sandbag on the leg like so.

This is a microphone. The closer you can get it to the actor the better.

This is a tripod. They're all different. But generally there is a knob/bolt on the bottom that you remove to remove the head. Some people call the legs "sticks". This is a hi-hat. It's like a tripod but really short.

This is an apple box. It's handy for raising things up.

I'm not going to bother covering camera specifics in this class since every single one is different. They usually have a place for lenses to go, a record button and some Framerate/ISO/Color Temperature and Shutter settings just in different places.

 

[Timur Civan]

I did not go to film school. I was a fine art major, sculpture department.

I fell into film. I used what I knew about form, light and composition to transition to a DP. I started as an AC and later operator, then with some good luck, got a break.

If I could do it again, I'd go to business school with a minor in art.

 

[Tom Chase]

So I have the GI bill and I am trying to move back to LA and well I don't want that benefit going to waste. As a 40+ year old person who has a ton of life experience and great mentors who have been in and out of Hollywood since the '60's, is it going to get me much going to say pursue a BFA in Film or should I be looking at something like USC's extension programs (I know they have a few film oriented courses) or even New York Film Los Angeles's 1 year Film Making program?

Just hesitant on being the "old man" at a four year program.

Thanks again

Tommy

 

[Steve Das]

...If I could do it again, I'd go to business school with a minor in art.

Then you're onto the same thing...how many CEO's and Millionaire/Billionaires never went to Business School. Alot.

Not that it really justifies not going to school..but it does make you wonder if all school from kindergarten on is
mostly busywork..designed to give a certain section of people lifetime employment and with tenure total job security.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Then you're onto the same thing...how many CEO's and Millionaire/Billionaires never went to Business School. Alot.

Not that it really justifies not going to school..but it does make you wonder if all school from kindergarten on is
mostly busywork..designed to give a certain section of people lifetime employment and with tenure total job security.

Everybody who never went to school but went on to great things had two things in common: 1) A good home learning environment 2) High intelligence. Some people can self-direct their education. Others have to be spoon fed. Just because the outliers are capable of teaching themselves doesn't mean we don't need an educational system for everyone else. And we could do amazing things if we had a second track to accelerate those who are in the latter group. I could probably shave about 6 years of school off my past self if i could time travel and tutor my younger self.

 

[Chris Luker]

I thought I was a good photographer until I went to a local college and learned how bad I actually was.
I now teach at that college. We have an Epic (and I bring in my Dragon from time to time now), BMCC 4K, C100s, F3, MOVI 10, Jimmy Jib triangle, stedicam, 50,000 sq ft sound stage, high end editing suites a gogo, etc.
We teach the practical stuff and get a bunch of BFA students coming to actually learn how to shoot.
If you can, find a place like this.

 

[James Sielaff]

Very simple:

If you are not already out hustling and making it happen, and you have the financial opportunity to go, go to film school.

If you are scared by the idea of making a film because you don't know where to start, go to film school.

You can make what you want out of life.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

So I have the GI bill and I am trying to move back to LA and well I don't want that benefit going to waste. As a 40+ year old person who has a ton of life experience and great mentors who have been in and out of Hollywood since the '60's, is it going to get me much going to say pursue a BFA in Film or should I be looking at something like USC's extension programs (I know they have a few film oriented courses) or even New York Film Los Angeles's 1 year Film Making program?

Just hesitant on being the "old man" at a four year program.

Thanks again

Tommy

If you read the Wikipedia article about film school, you'll see that there's a section about this very debate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_school#Benefits_debated

One of the references cited is opinion from Werner Herzog's in CNN: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_school#cite_note-zog-8

To net it out, Herzog says that a film can be made for $15,000 these days. And that unknowns like he once was should expect at least 10 years of rejection, despite producing award-winning films during those 10 years. Taking him at his word, this means having the ability to invest $150,000 over 10 years, with no hope of return or recognition, despite talent and objective quality of the work. On the other hand, a film school might have (out-of-state) tuition and fees of $25,000 for four years, which is a $100,000 investment for a four-year degree. In this case, one might gain similar experience, working on 4-8 film projects that can also be submitted for award selection (and/or rejection). But the path to reputation within the film community can be faster, due to the alumni and professional networks of the school. The opportunity to work on sound stages with equipment well in excess of what one can afford for a $15,000 film is also a way of gaining credibility, not just experience. Not all schools are created equal, but the best schools do have meaningful networks and resources.

For some people, like Werner Herzog, 10 years of rejection is Just The Thing to motivate their best work. He celebrates that struggle. For others, four years of healthy coaching from mentors and/or the camaraderie of excellent peers is more helpful. You say you have a network of friends who have been in and out of Hollywood--you should ask them what they would recommend. They've probably seen both the No Film School folks and the BFAs. They might even be able to tell you, based on that experience and knowing you, what would be the best strategy for you.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Then you're onto the same thing...how many CEO's and Millionaire/Billionaires never went to Business School. Alot.

Not that it really justifies not going to school..but it does make you wonder if all school from kindergarten on is
mostly busywork..designed to give a certain section of people lifetime employment and with tenure total job security.

I saw an article years ago that pointed to the high incidence of fortune 500 CEO's that used to be Marines from memory.

I thought I was a good photographer until I went to a local college and learned how bad I actually was.
I now teach at that college. We have an Epic (and I bring in my Dragon from time to time now), BMCC 4K, C100s, F3, MOVI 10, Jimmy Jib triangle, stedicam, 50,000 sq ft sound stage, high end editing suites a gogo, etc.
We teach the practical stuff and get a bunch of BFA students coming to actually learn how to shoot.
If you can, find a place like this.

Chris, were you saying you actually were not, or were you being sarcastic?

Very simple:

If you are not already out hustling and making it happen, and you have the financial opportunity to go, go to film school.

If you are scared by the idea of making a film because you don't know where to start, go to film school.

You can make what you want out of life.

I agree with James, but you can also hustle a bit while studying. But a lot can be said for talent, you either got it or if you can get it, it will help.

 

[Tom Chase]

@Michael Tiemann, I understand what your saying... my concern is investing 4 years, my learning style has always been hands on. I went to Vinecnt LaForet's Directing Motion & Shane Hulbert's Illumination tour over the summer and I feel like I learned more in those 16 hours that I did back in 2004 taking a semester of classes. Thats why I was asking about alternative learning venues like NYFA-LA's 1 year program. I know even out here in the remote outpost of San Antonio, your reputation and contacts carry a bunch of weight and for most that comes from networking/school.

I'm just not a "be locked" in a lecture hall learner, I have to be hands on. Any suggestions?

 

[Michael Tiemann]

@Tom Chase, the film school at UNCSA School of Filmmaking is hands-on. Students write scripts, make budgets, recruit actors, and then go through the green lighting process. Not every script gets green-lighted, but the ones that do are fully staffed (by students) and resourced (by the school) and the reels that are made by 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year students are remarkable.