Post your thoughts on film school

[Luke Kokinos]

As a young filmmaker, living in the digital age, where almost anyone can make a film of some caliber, my thoughts on film school change very frequently. I have heard many people say it connected them with lifelong connections that benefit them very much. Others say if they could do it over, they wouldn't spend the money and the time. I'm not asking for personal guidance, more just curious what everyone's thoughts are on film school now that digital cinema has become so affordable.

So what do you all think? Time better spent watching films, reading books and forums, and spend money going out and shooting? Or is it beneficial to get a formal education and build school connections before entering the workforce?

Discuss.

 

[David W. Jones]

Here's a start…. http://www.reduser.net/forum/search.php?searchid=12906658

 

[Luke Kokinos]

All I'm getting is an error message.

 

[Nick Morrison]

It depends. Some film schools are more "theory" based, and not all their grads leave "prepared" for the technical demands of digital film-making. While other film schools are more hands on and "trade" orientated, which I imagine is more worthwhile. There are many, many things you can only learn by being hands-on, so a school prepared to teach real world skills is probably worth looking into.

My concern for young film-makers determined to "learn it all" on the web, is there are subtleties you can only learn being on set, spoken from the lips of seasoned veterans.

 

[Dennis Hingsberg]

I myself having never been to film school have been self taught learning the ins and outs of film production for probably the better part of 10 years if not more. I use to tell people the biggest value that can come from a film school are your lifelong connections - just like you put it. But the more and more that I work with people who actually really do think "anyone can make a film" I realize holy shit - some of these people really don't even know the basics of how to do a production, let alone make a film that tells a story.

You know, the guys who don't know the set is actually quiet when filming a loud restaurant scene, or that you don't need to boom sound and can just use the mic in-camera (if there is one.) What about the filmmakers who say they don't need to use any lights? Or how about the director (and this is my favorite which actually happened to me last year) who wants to shoot exactly according to the edit ie. shoot a line from actor A then reset to shoot the response from actor B and then reset again to get actors A's lines again....

So all and all I'd say in the end it really depends what kind of learner you are, and pinpointing exactly what it is you need to learn.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

I'm a trustee of a University that has a nationally ranked film school. 10 films that screened at Sundance last year, and 11 films that screened at Sundance the year before, had graduates either from our film school and/or our drama school (also nationally ranked).

There is no question that people learn best and most by doing, and a good film school provides both the curricular education and the hands-on production opportunities to deliver a truly practical education. It is certainly possible to imagine there's a way to spend four years making films with incredibly talented peers and mentors with sheer hustle, just as it is possible to imagine going to Las Vegas and winning a $1M jackpot using just $100 in quarters and some luck. But how does one find those peers? How does one find those mentors? How does one score the experience-building opportunities again and again and again, especially if, as part of the learning process, one might fail from time to time?

A good school provides the education and experience to allow one to enter the profession as a professional. But it also provides entry points into the profession, either because of a strong alumni network that honors the education of the school, or because of the exposure the school can bring to your work as a student.

Making one self-funded film, or two, or even three, requires enormous luck, skill, sweat, and more luck. And there will always be those who hit the jackpot regardless of the odds. But a good film school, combined with sheer force of will, can provide more technical expertise, more experience, more connections, more of a platform than sheer force of will can do alone.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Michael I have several friends who went to your nationally ranked drama school, and I can happily say...years later...quite a few of them have successful film/tv careers!

Point being: going to your school worked!

And it's easy to see why. In the early 2000's, as comedy was starting to grow in NYC, actors who went to school and arrived "trained" seemed to have a leg up. They were prepared, and able to seize the moment just as comedy was starting to explode in NYC.

Good training, especially when you're young, certainly appears to be a smart thing.

 

[Luke Kokinos]

Lot of good point being made. Having at one point been the guy who thought lights were optional (thankfully only on my first few films when I was 13), I can say, there are certainly things to be said for knowing the fundamental rules of film. And even when getting professional looking/feeling content, at some points I feel like any professional who looked my some of my sets would pull their hair out.

 

[Wil Wong]

I vote "YES" to film school. Why?

1. The friends, colleagues that you meet and intertwine can be a contact of a lifetime. This means exchanging free help (which may not happen if you met them on a paying set).

2. Film History. Hearing other points of view on older films can include fresh POV and movies you'd never explore due to rarity or lack of knowledge or care.

3. Chance to hone your craft with a crew/cast/team that you won't get from paying or getting paid gig. Experience is important and exploring multiple roles would be great.

4. Learning correct business and film etiquette. Helps to learn what to avoid rather then make mistakes on the job. Having a reputation can make or break future jobs and colleagues wanting to work with you.

Film school might not give you creative freedom or lots of opportunity honing one specific role, but it does give you variety and a chance to work with folks your age and a chance to get comfortable in the film world before jumping in. School can't be the only experience but no schooling can lead to lots of remorseful amateur mistakes. My opinion.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

[...] School can't be the only experience but no schooling can lead to lots of remorseful amateur mistakes. My opinion.

Or, to put it another way...it's one thing to be creative, step into the unknown, and learn from walking that uncharted path. It's quite another thing, and very unprofessional, to make others pay for the lack of one's basic education.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Apparently they attract different people, and a number of successful people have never been to one. It is worth it, but it floats different boats. You might go to one that is high faluting and like or dislike the people that go there, or you might go to a real gritty nails one and either like or dislike the people. I think the industry is probably changing its roots from no film school days, you could pick up some good stuff, what do you guys think?

 

[Zeb B]

Film making is a business like any other so why would higher education not be as important? Besides, if done correctly, college is 20% stuff you learnt and 80% professional networking. How do you think Google, Yahoo, Facebook and South Park got started? The power of the Alum cannot be overstated - that's why Stanford and Harvard costs more and are impossible to get in to. Get over the "film is art that cannot be taught" bullshit. It's a billion dollar industry

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Its probably both. But anti no ed attitude won't get people far with people who didn't go to college. Both give different perspectives, and today it's so complex that it makes a long apprenticeship instead of education. Find out where people are at and what fits you, do what fits them to make money if good, and lean towards what fits you to keep you happy when you can if good, and outside of money earning work if need be. Its all about balancing things.

--

Luke, work and learn. some of the best professionals worked in their field before and during education, homing their skills and connections. My friend did work experience at the local arm if the largest power colony, was head hunted to be trained up to senior management at GM over here, went back to become high management at the state power company, then got his own GM sponsored company. Incredible fellow, and putting his hand in to the plow a lot, and responsibly balancing family (a tip). So, paid or not, you can be working and learning and building connections outside the industry, and a nitty gritty practical film school might be low life to some, but gives practical skills without a lot to of extra paper work on ideas, ways of thinking, or skills, that may well help, and in some parts may not, maybe some bodies "opinion". You can do both, if you can take it, if you are going to neglect your life and/or burn out half way through, do a quarter as much. You can't work twice as hard as you can 24 hours a day every waking hour every day of the year.

 

[Zeb B]

Why do the instructors at REDucation teach for free? To network. If you can find a better way than a top 10 film school to network then do it. Waiting tables at the Ivy is not a better alternative although more sexy. Reminds me of the Steely Dan song about the bullshit artist persona:

You call me a fool
You say it's a crazy scheme
This one's for real
I already bought the dream
So useless to ask me why
Throw a kiss and say goodbye
I'll make it this time
I'm ready to cross that fine line

[Chorus]
I'll learn to work the saxophone
I play just what I feel
Drink Scotch whiskey all night long
And die behind the wheel
They got a name for the winners in the world
And I want a name when I lose
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide
Call me Deacon Blues

 

[Mark George]

If you can afford it, then yes, I think film school could be hugely valuable.

First, you get exposure to a plethora of ideas and techniques that you would otherwise spend years learning/acquiring on your own. Not every idea will resonate with you, but it's the exposure that's important. And yes, we all spend our entire careers learning and improving, but film school accelerates your development. The concentrated exposure film school gives you puts you ahead of the curve.

Second, any film school worth a dime will teach through a combination of lecture and hands-on practice. As a couple people have mentioned above, the practice gives you an opportunity to fail in a safe environment where you can learn from your mistakes and not feel too self-conscious.

Finally, if you get good instructors, you will get good, non-ego-stroking critical feedback of your work. Speaking as someone who writes (and wants to direct), this is incredibly valuable. Don't validate me, tell me what I'm doing wrong. That's hard to get from friends and family.

I've been taking classes focused on writing for the screen and directing. The opportunity to practice, the feedback (as painful as it can sometimes be), and yes, the theory, are all immensely helpful. At least for me.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Get a degree in something like Fine Art or Philosophy. Film doesn't need a degree. If you want to be a grip--go start working. If you want to be a writer or director go learn about philosophy and literature or get a degree in psychology and figure out how people tick. You can learn everything you need to know about film from a technical standpoint in like 45 minutes.

 

[Nick Morrison]

You can learn everything you need to know about film from a technical standpoint in like 45 minutes.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. I still run into many film-makers who don't know the basics of lenses, photography, coverage, lighting, composition, and filtration - even with years experience in the business.

Besides, it take a lot more than the basics to be even remotely good at what we do. If it were easy, everyone would do it!

 

[Mike Garrick]

After a couple of decades in this business I've never been asked once for my academic quals. .....never!

 

[Wayne Morellini]

I'm not sure that's entirely true. I still run into many film-makers who don't know the basics of lenses, photography, coverage, lighting, composition, and filtration - even with years experience in the business.

Besides, it take a lot more than the basics to be even remotely good at what we do. If it were easy, everyone would do it!

You'd be a genius Gavin to learn everything you need in 45 minutes.

A degree in fine arts and philosophy might cut it in Europe to make films not many people want to actually watch, but in reality films are soul food, that's why films like The Avenges work, even they are supposed to be .... according to people who have done degrees in fine arts and philosophy. Luke, if you want to learn the secret behind great films go and watch the TV series "Man Eats Food" you'll learn most everything you'll need to know as a director about this secret in the expression "This is freak'in Awesome Dude!" and learn to balance that among/with subtleties. Either the subtleties are going to be worked to make the film 'awesome' on their own or awesome parts are ALSO going to make the film Awesome, all great films should fit between these two extremes, from non action to action.

Learning philosophy, psychology and fine arts may just teach you sterilised views (onion opinions) of how somebody without real passion views things wrongly. You got to learn to do what other people want, but for your own work: practice writing and thinking impressive things, thinking of how to write them, the plots, the movements, the camera moves (and try to practice in real life in your own time). Look at great work and appreciate what is happening, and for writing observe real life, think about what is happening, learn from other people, then maybe learn basic psychology (the real life observations first give you an idea of this to frame the BS out of psychology then letting the remaining psychology give your real life observations some more structure, and go back and forth getting deeper understanding, and over the weeks, months and years of practicing such things you should get better at it. The mind has various memory and patterning in its structures, so for long term memory you should do something for 6 weeks (unless you have health issues) and I forget, but maybe 6 months too). I have just come away from discussing philosophy and psychology issues with a friend, and have done production training, and am in a writers group. You must appreciate appeal from the audiences perspective and the masters, then add to their appeal, not from airy academic interpretations. There is a lot of old psychology that is wrong (psychiatry is even worse) compared to modern psychology, and the same goes for academic research that they teach from.

--


Oh yes, and be one of the people that reads past the first sentence or two.

 

[Steve Das]

I'm not sure that's entirely true. I still run into many film-makers who don't know the basics of lenses, photography, coverage, lighting, composition, and filtration - even with years experience in the business.
Besides, it take a lot more than the basics to be even remotely good at what we do. If it were easy, everyone would do it!

That is really surprising since those basics aren't even taught at a cinematography school like USC..AFI..or NYU.
They just assume you know all the basics. Cause you won't even get into the school in the first place unless you can demonstrate a level of proficiency.

This quote came from a general Forbes article but it apllies really to all majors. Also if you expect to go to film school and find auteur genius
collaborators to work with...you are probably expecting way too much out of it as each year only a handfull of students move into the professional world.
And many years none do.

Unfortunately, going to school doesn’t have as positive of an effect on a student’s future as it once did. For many, graduating college manages only to increase the individual’s debt without leading to job opportunities. With so many people graduating college, a degree does not have the same coveted rarity as it once did, and there are simply not enough jobs to go around for everyone to enter their dream career right out of college.