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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Platinum IRNDs on Epic = BAD

Phil, would you direct us to the video posted on that. Was this your test you put online testing NDs with different cameras?

Phil Holland said:
+1,000,000 Tested literally every option on the market minus the newest IRND options from Formatt. I use the same HMND filters Evin uses. They make happy images.

phfx_redNDIRProtectionExample.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Phil,

When we get a new Dragon sensor in our Epic, I'd be glad to put it up for some more IRND tests if your around and not working in Borneo! :)
 
Caleb Heymann said:
Would love to hear from someone who's worked with the new Formatt Prostop filters, which look great because they seem to have the same reflective properties on the outside as a normal ND filter.
Click to expand...

I just received a set of the Formatt ProStop filters and my initial impressions are very positive. Haven't had time to put them through any thorough testing yet though.
 
Will Keir said:
Phil, would you direct us to the video posted on that. Was this your test you put online testing NDs with different cameras?
Click to expand...

I never posted a video. No real reason to. The stills tell the story and it's mostly footage of Panavision's old parking lot. There's a million posts on the subject with a bunch of sample images. Ryan Walters also did a bunch of tests. I tested a bunch out for Alexa as well back in 2010. Mitch Gross from AbelCine did a fairly thorough video test here: http://blog.abelcine.com/index.php?s=irnd&sa.x=0&sa.y=0

Mitch was able to put on the Formatt ProStop IRND filters in that video, which I haven't done a side by side yet with the Hot Mirror/ND Combo Filters (the ProStops are pretty new).

Here's a telling post from a year ago.

Phil Holland said:
Quick and Dirty Deep ND Filtration Test (Schneider Platinum 1.8 and Formatt HMND 1.8)
While running about and in between meetings I zipped over to Panavision for something else entirely. However, while I was there we did a very quick and dirty deep ND filtration test using the Schneider Platinum IRND 1.8, my Formatt HMND (Hot Mirror/ND) 1.8, and just the clean lens as a control. We jogged out into the parking lot and shot these all within a few seconds of each other. The results shocked me and I feel I may have to do more tests. Like a lot more tests. Let me show you the test image:


phfx_redScarletQuickDeepNDTest.jpg



So "raw" is just the R3D out of the camera at 5600k, ISO 320 due to bright daylight. The "WB" means I white balanced off that center building, again this was quick and dirty. The "WB+DRX" is a white balanced and DRX set to 1.0 adjustment to remove the red/pink tint. The top row is the control and was shot with just the bare lens.


So my observations of what's going on here is that the white balanced Formatt HMND is pretty damn nice, which I knew. Rich shadow detail with no color tint and that's with no DRX applied! The odd thing here, and the thing that really shocked me was that the white balanced Schneider IRND image retains so much of the pink in the highlights and there's a color cast in the sky. Another odd thing I noticed in the Schneider IRND images is that the rolloff to highlights is slightly different, almost as if it's brighter in general. The area you should pay special attention to is the white rectangular bar on that center building and also the general hue of the blue sky.


Honestly, this confused me and is causing me to recondsider everything at this point as I was going to order a set Schneiders and a new matte box this week. Now I feel I'll actually need to rent a full set and really test them under different lighting conditions to really "know" what's going on. I've got a few days to sort all this out though. Right now I'm feeling the Formatt HMND are currently the best solution, which is really not what I expected.
Click to expand...


Will Keir said:
Phil,

When we get a new Dragon sensor in our Epic, I'd be glad to put it up for some more IRND tests if your around and not working in Borneo! :)
Click to expand...


It sounds like we won't need IRND filtration in the future with Dragon. Jarred posted that there's going to be a new IR OLPF in front of the sensor and also expressed more news was coming on that front. That's a good thing in my mind. I'll be holding onto my IR protection until we know more details for sure.

I seriously can't wait for Dragon. I'm really looking forward to testing it out and shooting with it. Haven't been this excited since Red One and Epic launches (Epic Red Day still remains a tremendous moment to me). The technology that we know of, and keep in mind we don't know everything yet, already punches through a wall we have never seen the other side of.
 
Can anyone speak of their experience with the Pancro Hot Mirror IRNDs?
 
I used to have those in the Red one days; they solved a lot of the IR issues, but gave some problems with specular highlights which caused odd internal reflections like cheap After Effects flares. Also because of some kind of coating the image was a bit softer; not ugly, but just different like some kind of FX filter. I sold them 2 years ago because of it.
 
Talking about the Pancro Hot Mirror?

Mick van Rossum said:
I used to have those in the Red one days; they solved a lot of the IR issues, but gave some problems with specular highlights which caused odd internal reflections like cheap After Effects flares. Also because of some kind of coating the image was a bit softer; not ugly, but just different like some kind of FX filter. I sold them 2 years ago because of it.
Click to expand...
 
Also curious about experience using a Rosco Trucolor IR Filter? (In front of the NDs)
 
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Phil Holland said:
+1,000,000 Tested literally every option on the market minus the newest IRND options from Formatt. I use the same HMND filters Evin uses. They make happy images.
Click to expand...

I Agree, no issues with Formatt so far and we have used them in may varied situations.
 
Also curious about experience using a Rosco Trucolor IR Filter? (In front of NDs)
 
The roscoe is reat though I feel I have had marginally better success from the format HMND. The roscoe filter is also very flimsy and easily breakable and not scratch resistant in the least.
 
This thread prompted me to run a new battery of tests on these newer series of IR control filters. Of particular interest to me was testing out the Tiffen Hot Mirror/IRNDs, the Formatt Hot Mirror/ND and the new Formatt ProStops... I threw in the Schneider Platinums, standard hot mirrors (and combined them with all of the various NDs and IRNDs out there, even inter-mixing brands), as well as True Cut and T1 filters (also combined with NDs and IRNDs)...

Phil was gracious enough to bring his Formatt HM/ND with him and act as a hand model.

We will post some images soon.
 
Certainly surprising results. I won't spill the beans, but there's a new "good option" for IR protection.
 
Found out from Formatt that they offer the ProStops in both glass and CR39 resin versions.
 
Phil Holland said:
Certainly surprising results. I won't spill the beans, but there's a new "good option" for IR protection.
Click to expand...
Looking forward to these tests. Be curious to see if they line up with what I've experienced. And there are some I have never used before so it will be interesting to compare.
 
We are in the process of compiling and organizing the frame grabs. Will post the Epic results here, though we also ran the same series with the Alexa. I will say each specific camera sensor responds to IR pollution differently and requires its own specific recipe to combat it.
 
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