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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Plagiarism...

paulherrin said:
right, right. it's all good. but mind that this or any short film definitely counts as an expression of an idea. if someone had made a poem that used the same concepts, that might be harder to judge, but when someone else makes a short film that is almost entirely the same like this... it's a pretty straightforward violation of copyright. course i'm not a judge on the matter, and like i said, there doesn't appear to be money involved. so the respectful thing to do is for them to at the very least offer credit, an apology, and a link to the original video. and it probably would have been totally cool had they asked permission in the first place.
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No problem. To be clear, I am not defending what these guys did - seems pretty unethical in this incarnation. But, I think we'll have to disagree as to what constitutes a copyrightable expression. I think Alexander's example about Star Trek was a good one. Or, if I made a movie about boy and girl falling in love, girl gets cancer and dies, I don't think the folks who made Love Story would have much of a case against me. Move plots are copied and "tweaked" all the time. Heck, even specific movie titles cannot be copyrighted. And this wouldn't be the first time that something was "stolen" from one culture and adapted for presentation to another. :sad:
 
I've had it a few times, and I'm sure many have, where I have an idea...then I begin to wonder if I had seen it before, had someone told me about it...was it a dream...was it a seeded idea growing deep inside my creative mind. Then it turns out I had seen it before, it might have been on half an episode of some tv series that I came across one day - something to that effect. I am basically saying its not unusual. Especially considering how much content we consume daily.

I would personally take a certain amount of pride from it. Its looks like a nicely played out film and shot nicely. If you helped to inspire someone creatively thats fantastic. Your film spoke to someone emotionally, in a different culture and language on the other side of the world. If it has done that...what more could you ask for.

There is no money to be made from short films. People make them for two reasons: For the art and craft of making films and to forward their career. It could be nice for them to acknowledge you and your cast for inspiration of the concept.

People who are driven by ego or money would take more exception to this kind of thing. Those that are balanced would take the good from it. There is no point in fuelling negativity from what is a beautiful craft, that is already poisoned and reborn in equal measure by money, business and power.

...Oh and no you definitely cannot copyright ideas, although there are obviously intangible assets...It should definitely also be pointed out that law is by its very nature NOT black and white. Nothing should ever be taken for granted. Its a big grey area that is based on a foundation of precedences.
 
so what you're saying tim, is that joseph et al has provided an almost positive case of inception? ;)

anyways, alexander is right about a lot of the law, i just disagree about an unclear ruling. in other cases this kind of stuff can possibly get drawn out and muddy, but if the circumstances were different ($$$) the ruling would be absolutely clear. chinese cooperation, on the otherhand... might not be so clear unfortunately.

if you have trouble interpreting the law, talk to a lawyer, but before you do that... use some common sense: the entire point of copyright laws is to protect works from being copied, in part or in whole. judges are people too, and see common sense (well, sometiems.)
 
Of a sort Paul, yes. ;) hehe. I remember on a few occasion racking my brain trying to remember whether I had seen something before or whether I had imagined it. The power of suggestion is quite something too. You can easily convince yourself that you had seen it before, even if you hadn't. You can build a time and a location derived from a feeling that the idea conjures. A similar thing happens with me and my childhood. The only memory I have of childhood is involuntary...A smell, object, phrase...I recently found out that I created a situation that never happened. I have been convinced this happened to me when I was a kid, but it never did. The opposite is also true. I have created memories from photographs I have seen of myself as a child. They are not real memories but I have made them real, as composites from actual memories and imagination cemented together by the photograph. But then again I was 27 for two years running so maybe I am just a little bit cuckoo.
 
Kinda reminds me of those contests where several film makers have to do their own interpretaion of a script. I'm sure they went out of their way to trade lead females for lead males, then did a mash up of the costume party and the two dudes. That bit with the hand, however, screams 'heavily influneced by'. Right. If my Chinese were better, I'd translate it for you.

My motto is 'life is too short to spend it in court'. It simply wouldn't be worth a legal wrangle with no clear shot at triumph. You have the original, and there are no doubts about it, so there lies your star. They really should give credit where credit is due, though.

Forgot he had seen it? Possible I suppose. Drinking when he saw it, and woke up believing he - or she - had dreamed it.


Great film, by the way. I had not seen it before.

aw
 
Hey Joseph, I somehow missed your film when it first made its appearance a couple of years ago, but it would not have affected me back then the way it does now. Like I posted here last summer, I recently lost my girlfriend to cancer, so this really hit home. In fact, just last week I was going over our last photo shoot so I could send a few more pics to her parents. So even though this thread is about plagiarism, thanks for sharing it again. Great little film.

Dan
 
what was your role in this film, Joseph?
 
Tom Lowe said:
what was your role in this film, Joseph?
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Camera Operator on everything except the shots out at the reservoir, with the brothers. I was a co-editor and needed to start cutting the assembly edit since it was for a 36 hour film festival and was unavailable for that specific scene...
 
Dan Blanchett said:
Hey Joseph, I somehow missed your film when it first made its appearance a couple of years ago, but it would not have affected me back then the way it does now. Like I posted here last summer, I recently lost my girlfriend to cancer, so this really hit home. In fact, just last week I was going over our last photo shoot so I could send a few more pics to her parents. So even though this thread is about plagiarism, thanks for sharing it again. Great little film.

Dan
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Hey Dan,

I remember reading about Jana in your thread, regarding priorities. I am sorry for your loss and it brings me a smile to know that it is still touching people by bringing a degree of comfort in hard times.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts...
 
Congrats on the copy! I remember seeing this when you first posted... Twas nice watching it again. The chinese version is pretty good too.

From my experience in shorts, what you gain is experience and recognition. I wouldn't bother with this, simply ask for credit. I've made a big 5000$ more or less with all my shorts over the last 5 years, wow!... I'm not in for the money, and I'd love to be copied, but I'd prefer to be asked of course. Then your friends who wrote it and directed it could've had a "based on..." credit...

What they did is morally wrong, mainly to not have asked the permission to do a remake, legally they're most probably in their own right, but they could have asked.

Cheers and bravo again!

Can I do a French remake please?! ;)
 
I found my music album on a chinese website, it was rebranded and made to look as if it were a chinese boy band. Everything was exactly the same right down to the song names and song order, it was just the cover that was changed.
 
Patrick OMara said:
I found my music album on a chinese website, it was rebranded and made to look as if it were a chinese boy band. Everything was exactly the same right down to the song names and song order, it was just the cover that was changed.
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A bit of a different issue than this, however. If I understand you correctly, they diidn't re-record the music, they actually use yours, yes?
 
Joseph Hutson said:
And you think that's a good comparison for the form of plagiarism such as it is in this case?
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No, not at all. If you think that, you are taking this comment out of context. Earlier, I said that I thought what these guys did was unethical. I don't, however, believe it was illegal. (No, I am not a lawyer.) My point was that it is a very grey area, and very difficult to prove, since, as the point has been made several times, you cannot copyright an idea. And as others have said, I think you made a very good film and should be proud of it. As upsetting as it might be, it is somewhat flattering that someone halfway across the world was so impressed with it that they copied it. Thankfully, nothing they did takes away from you, your talent, or the quality of your film.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
A bit of a different issue than this, however. If I understand you correctly, they diidn't re-record the music, they actually use yours, yes?
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yeah, it was an exact copy of the music passed off as their own. It seemed odd that someone would go through the trouble of doing it considering I am not that popular. Anyways, I found it pretty amusing and didn't mind it at all. :)
 
Patrick OMara said:
I found my music album on a chinese website, it was rebranded and made to look as if it were a chinese boy band. Everything was exactly the same right down to the song names and song order, it was just the cover that was changed.
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Amazing! That's plain theft! Is it selling at least? ;)
 
Hi Joseph,

You did an excellent job on the short, be proud of that. You can spend your whole life going after people like this but why waste your talent and time on them. Just not worth it. I admire your focus and direction in life, if my son turns out half a good as you I'll be a very happy dad.

Best, Peter
 
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