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PL or EF mount for 8k?

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Phil Thomas

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Hi guys,

I know there are endless threads regarding lens coverage on 8k on here, but I have a specific question I'm hoping someone can help me with.

Like everyone else I'm very keen on a really decent set of lenses but Vista Vision has thrown a spanner in the works. I already own a set of Canon CN-E lenses which I'm hoping will cover but I need another set really.

I want something different and the most practical choice seems to be the CP2 lenses given the price and the likelihood to cover vista vision. They are available with either a PL mount or a Canon EF mount. Does anyone know which (if there is a difference) would perform better optically? Also would there be any difference in sensor coverage?

I've been hunting on the web for an answer but no joy. Ive also contacted zeiss but no response yet

I'd also just really like to hear your thoughts from experience of using either.

cheers
Phil
 
It's the same lens, just with a different mount. Same coverage, same optical performance. You can even swap the mount on the lenses.

EF-mount is more versatile. Having EF on your camera allows you to use more lenses, you can even adapt PL-lenses to EF if needed. Having EF-lenses allows you to use them on more cameras. PL-mount on the other hand is the film-industry standard for a reason. Its sturdier and for example more reliable in bad weather conditions (but on RED we have the option of a Ti-Canon mount too).

All in all, my personal choice would be EF, especially for vv-8k. Just because you can adapt so many glass to it. The idea of using MF-stills glass on 8k-VV is pretty interesting.
 
I dunno about EF, but RED make a specific PL mount for the 8k weapon. Now... EF should cover that anyway, but it's a hint in there...
 
Currently shooting in the desert of Tabarnas, really glad we're not using EF-mount...

However, after shooting in the desert of Lawrence and Patton (among other great films), it's hard not to fantasise a little about a larger format. I.e. W VV 8K. And while daydreaming a little in the desert, a rebuilt set of 5-6 Zeiss Otus Lenses or Sigma art series for PL comes to my mind.

With even higher resolution, cinema-grade mechanics and sturdy PL-mounts would be the only way I would feel comfortable working.
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
Currently shooting in the desert of Tabarnas, really glad we're not using EF-mount...

However, after shooting in the desert of Lawrence and Patton (among other great films), it's hard not to fantasise a little about a larger format. I.e. W VV 8K. And while daydreaming a little in the desert, a rebuilt set of 5-6 Zeiss Otus Lenses or Sigma art series for PL comes to my mind.

With even higher resolution, cinema-grade mechanics and sturdy PL-mounts would be the only way I would feel comfortable working.
Click to expand...


I love the Zeiss Otus but was told by them "Zeiss" if I'm not mistaken that it is impossible to convert them to PL because of the rear elements. Plus they have to protect their master prime series.
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
Currently shooting in the desert of Tabarnas, really glad we're not using EF-mount...

However, after shooting in the desert of Lawrence and Patton (among other great films), it's hard not to fantasise a little about a larger format. I.e. W VV 8K. And while daydreaming a little in the desert, a rebuilt set of 5-6 Zeiss Otus Lenses or Sigma art series for PL comes to my mind.

With even higher resolution, cinema-grade mechanics and sturdy PL-mounts would be the only way I would feel comfortable working.
Click to expand...

I must say the Art things have surpassed my expectations by far the last month or so.


And I think I would have taken to the desert with a decent FF system...
 
Hi Phil,

CP2 lenses come with both PL and EF mounts which you can switch yourself easily with a screwdriver.

Cheers,

Craig Lees
ED UK
3DStories.co.uk
 
The obvious pros and cons have already been discussed but it's also important to note, that from an AC perspective, there are two other differences between PL and EF CP.2's that people rarely talk about.

The first is that since the PL mount is longer, it is a bit easier to attach a follow focus and matte box on LW15 rods to a CP.2 because it sticks out a bit further from the body of the camera. I know it's doable to get an FF-5 and an MB-29 on a CP.2 but it's a bit of a struggle with ef mounts. I know they are called Compact Primes but sometimes they can be too compact! That little bit of extra room in the PL mount makes all the difference between a quick lens swap and more difficult one.

The second is that the EF mount will give you some lens data in the corner of your monitor that won't be delivered by a PL mount. I believe that it gives you Focal length and the close and far points of your focus range. I don't think it gives aperture as well but I could be wrong about that one. That data is not essential but it is a nice visual backup for an AC. In a pinch, there have been a times where I've had to use it to grab marks. Again not essential but a nice little bonus.

So yeah, beyond the regular arguments, when you are shooting on red those two points should also be considered.
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
Yes, but for PL you have both i/interface and LDS on Ultras, S4 and S5, and some Angeniux lenses.
Click to expand...

Sure.

Curious how the developmen of reading of lens data from EF/Nikon glass is developing, though.

If the Optitron 2 is as precise as promised, it should be possible to get precise readings frame accurately also from still glass.
But I'll get the chance to test that...

And breathing on the arts and the Canon glass I have is much better than most PL glass I have used. Image wise they are kinda great really
 
Gunleik Groven said:
And I think I would have taken to the desert with a decent FF system...
Click to expand...

I find it hard enough to change PL under our mini-crew conditions down here, and when working, everything regarding the camera system thats not optimal gives me a lot of stress, and personally using photolenses is something I avoid for narrative work.

BTW: Currently shooting 6k ws, SuperSpeeds without FF... works really well without b-photo. T11.
 
I go back and forth between PL and EF mounts a whole lot. However, for like 95% of what I do the camera is using a PL Mount. The pros from a stability and operating perspective are a big deal for me. Not to mention the generally better overall mechanics and optical performance of PL glass. However, I do switch out and use vintage Oly, modern Canon, Mamiya, and Zeiss lenses. Some perform better than others in terms of things like image shift, that particular thing is the thing I try to avoid most on shoots honestly.

I've had shoot days where I've gone from the PL Motion Mount to Canon EF to regular PL Mount. It's not a huge deal to change the mounts at all. Changing mounts on the rear of lenses is a bit more time consuming. If you're using Zeiss CP.2s just make sure you have your shims in a bag between swaps and make sure everything is super clean if you have to do that.
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
I find it hard enough to change PL under our mini-crew conditions down here, and when working, everything regarding the camera system thats not optimal gives me a lot of stress, and personally using photolenses is something I avoid for narrative work.

BTW: Currently shooting 6k ws, SuperSpeeds without FF... works really well without b-photo. T11.
Click to expand...

Yes. PL's from the same era. I have used Masters and Ultras + the Angie "RED"/compact zooms quite a bit...
Love them, but still...

Pretty taken back with the performance I get from this stills glass. Have been pretty underwhelmed by the glass I have used previously (mostly Canon glass).

Also if you are shooting wides you kinda hit hyperfocal pretty close.

You kinda answer your own statement about AC, when shooting T11.

BTW, I do love deep focus.

And I do love your supers, so there is no question about that, just that I kinda am really surprised with what I get from the Arts and the Canon 70-200 2.8 combo.

Really curious what kind of distance readings I can get with the Optitron combo in the metadata
 
Hmm, been using Nikons a lot before, nothing wrong about the image quality. The Leicas don't breath, can't remember if I've seen any on the new angie-zooms either. In terms of shooting at t11 down here, I'm actually moving quite a lot from macros, to faces and infinity landscapes. Would never managed with my Nikons... I see the argument about optical quality, however I really love cinema glass for a number of reasons, user friendlyness for motion being one...
 
More and more cinema is moving over to Nikon F, Canon EF, and even the Micro 4/3 standard. So why is everyone trying to slam a PL mount on their grandfathers old set of Nikon AIS lenses? It’s simple. All three of the still photo mounts I mentioned have their limitations that can really disrupt a cinematographers flow. For example, Nikon, Canon, and M34 all have a locking pin that keeps the lens set in it’s place and you push the little button to release the pin.
Click to expand...

Very well explained, from an excellent blog by Matthew Duclos about lens conversation.
 
Thanks for all your help guys! I genuinely thought that they had a different rear element not just a different metal mount.

I've got two Epic Dragons and a carbon weapon on the way. Both of the Epics have always been sporting a canon mount but I think it's time to jump into PL and have a bit of fun! I'll still need a canon mount for the new camera as there will be times she has to wear different glass.

I suppose the next question from me would be what do you guys think of CP2s?

I'm happy with the price for a set, around £18,000, and they work more like real cinema glass. I'm going to wait until 8k VV has been out a while to see what lenses would suit her better but until then I need a set that will work well, give a good picture, cover 6k and possibly stand a chance of covering 8k.

I already own the Canon CN-E range, so I'm not sure what else is available at this time?
 
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