Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

PL Mount Issue

tight lenses

tight lenses

I have found that 16mm format zeiss lenses that have a PL mount adapter (from B-Mount) require the Red PL mount to be "unwound" one or two more rotations before they fit and the mount can lock the lens in place.

(This also occured on an old 50mm Schneider we tried)

This indicates that the "lip" (on the lens) that the lense mount (on the camera) locks onto is slightly thicker than on a normal PL mount lens.

In theory this shouldn't effect the relationship between the lens mounting point and the sensor, however on these lenses I cannot get the lense to focus anywhere throughout it's range.

On 16mm format lenses that have a native PL mount they fit in the camera normally, however the (back) focus still appears to be out, although not as much (eg on a 24mm lens I could focus at about 8' by parking the lens at INF.

This is on a camera that (after various adjustments to the flange depth) lines up perfectly on 1 X set Zeiss Standards, 1 X set Zeiss Supers, 3 X sets Zeiss Ultras & 2 X sets Cooke S4s.

Unfortunatley I have not had the opportunity to test multiple sets of 16mm format primes to see if it a consistent problem, and until now all the shots have been in 4K anyway.

This is a very frustrating problem because all PL mount lenses should work fine, but it means for 2K shoots that production have had to hire costly 35mm format wide lenses such as 12mm & 10mm to get coverage once the sensor is windowed.

I would be interested to hear if anyone else is having these problems.
 
Arno said:
Hello all;
I've experienced a few problems with lenses that would not mount on the Red PL Mount. It seems to be a bit too tight. Has anybody else experienced this problem?

Arno
Click to expand...

Are you using the original PL RED mount or the new one ?
 
I've mounted many different types of lenses to my RED.

And as mentioned above, I learned very early on to make it a habit to always spin back the mount the extra rotation..... I'd say about ninety five percent back, then I eye ball the mount by looking at the ears so there lined up with the pin... and bingo.

It's very easy to do and once you've done it a few times, I think you'll agree that's the best way to do it.

BTW, no one has the new pl mount .....yet, except of course RED.
 
No I don't have the new mount obviously and I tried to do the extra rotation. But apparently I'm not the only one with this problem. Definitely hope the new mount fixes this issue.

Thanks for the feedback everybody,

Arnaud
 
Sam Druckerman said:
I've mounted many different types of lenses to my RED.

And as mentioned above, I learned very early on to make it a habit to always spin back the mount the extra rotation..... I'd say about ninety five percent back, then I eye ball the mount by looking at the ears so there lined up with the pin... and bingo.

It's very easy to do and once you've done it a few times, I think you'll agree that's the best way to do it.

BTW, no one has the new pl mount .....yet, except of course RED.
Click to expand...

Instead of simply "eyeballing" we've added a mark onto the ear directly over the pin (when in the locked position), so anyone (ie. 1st AC etc.) knows when they are "there"

More Love
More Life
More RED Cinema
 
Hi Billy

I've played with 4 different cameras since they came out and your PL mount on #13 was one of the better ones. That said I am very glad red has totally redesigned the mount as it definately had it issues. I found you had to watch that you did not tighten the PL mount too much on 13 as you could spin it past the lens ears. It seems to me that a small adjustment would fix that easily though. #13 worked very well throughout the day I used her and helped produce a great commercial.
 
I found this issue a couple of weeks ago. It has to do with the fact that the throad of regular PL cameras is shaved off 45 degrees where the throad of the Red PL mount is straight. This is no problem with regular factory Zeiss and Cooke lenses but is a problem with pl mount adapers to PL, since there "edge" od the mount is not really straight. Unwinding does not work since it won't get your lens to infinty. I addressed this issue to the red team and they said they were going to improve this. So hopefuly with the new mount this will be solved.
Hope this helps

Cheers

Mick van Rossum NSC
 
16mm format lens focus issues.

16mm format lens focus issues.

*********************************
Unwinding does not work since it won't get your lens to infinty. I addressed this issue to the red team and they said they were going to improve this. So hopefuly with the new mount this will be solved.
Hope this helps

Cheers

Mick van Rossum NSC
*******************************

Are you reffering to the fact that you have to unwind the mount a few rotations to get the lenses with PL adapters to fit, or to the problem of not being able to get focus on 16mm lenses (or both)

Still interested to hear from anyone who has actually used the camera & had problems (or success) with being able to get focus on 16mm format lenses on a camera that is otherwise fine with 35mm format lenses.
 
nzben said:
*********************************
Unwinding does not work since it won't get your lens to infinty. I addressed this issue to the red team and they said they were going to improve this. So hopefuly with the new mount this will be solved.
Hope this helps

Cheers

Mick van Rossum NSC
*******************************

Are you reffering to the fact that you have to unwind the mount a few rotations to get the lenses with PL adapters to fit, or to the problem of not being able to get focus on 16mm lenses (or both)

Still interested to hear from anyone who has actually used the camera & had problems (or success) with being able to get focus on 16mm format lenses on a camera that is otherwise fine with 35mm format lenses.
Click to expand...

I am referring to the fact that some people were suggesting that unwinding can solve the problem but it does not, since the lens won't get deep enough to focus to infinity. Yes I have shot succesfully with super 16 lenses which were originally pL mounted (canon 7-63, Superspeeds Mk3's), but all adaptes that I could find had the same problem.

Cheers

Mick van Rossum NSC
 
PL Mount

PL Mount

*&**************
I am referring to the fact that some people were suggesting that unwinding can solve the problem but it does not, since the lens won't get deep enough to focus to infinity.
******************


Ok, that's interesting, I would have thought that even if the 'wings' on the lens (or it's PL adapter) were slightly thicker, that the lens would still sit in the mount with the same distance between the back of the mounting point and the film plane.

This is assumming of course that the extra thickness in the PL adapter is towards the front of the lens. If it is towards the back, then it would all make sense, however why does this same lens then go on a film camera with a PL mount without any focus issues?
 
Hi,

If the lens is properly collimated it will focus correctly once its seated in the mount.

Stephen

nzben said:
*&**************
I am referring to the fact that some people were suggesting that unwinding can solve the problem but it does not, since the lens won't get deep enough to focus to infinity.
******************


Ok, that's interesting, I would have thought that even if the 'wings' on the lens (or it's PL adapter) were slightly thicker, that the lens would still sit in the mount with the same distance between the back of the mounting point and the film plane.

This is assumming of course that the extra thickness in the PL adapter is towards the front of the lens. If it is towards the back, then it would all make sense, however why does this same lens then go on a film camera with a PL mount without any focus issues?
Click to expand...
 
16mm format lenses

16mm format lenses

If the lens is properly collimated it will focus correctly once its seated in the mount
*****************************

just to confirm the situation:

1 X Red camera with PL mount that lines up fine with various different sets of 35mm format PL mount lenses.

1 X set native PL mount 16mm format lenses working fine on 16mm film camera

1 X set PL adapted 16mm format lenses working fine on 16mm film camera

Put camera in 2K, PL adapted 16mm format lenses cant get focus at all, anywhere, PL native lenses can get focus but it is way out.

Put either of these lens sets on a 16mm film camera with a PL mount and they are perfect.

Put any set of 35mm format PL lenses on the red camera and they line-up fine (perfect would be an untruth)

This senario doesnt make sense to me.
 
I think some people are getting confused here. In most cases with the PL adapters, it is not the ears of the mount that are to thick, it's RED's PL mount inner diameter (deeper than the flange seat) that is to narrow for the diameter of the adapter. Hold on looking for pictures.

So by backing the mount retaining ring out and tightening it on the lens, the lens isn't seated properly, but it's still held in. Instead of resting on the flange, it's resting on the adapters excess material. Causing a shift in flange depth that is knocking everything out of focus.

Of course there are a LOT of these adapters on the market and all of them are slightly different. So mileage may vary.
 
Ahh, gotcha, now it all makes sense. I will check this out next time I have the lenses available.

Do you think that this theory applies also to the native PL mount 16mm format lenses I have been testing (to a lesser extent, as they are able to get focus, but not acuratley, meaning they are not quite seated in the mount properly, but not as far out as the lenses with PL adapters.

I have had an enquiry from someone wanting to shoot with an old Angenieux 25-250 with a Pl adapter - I presume that this then could also have the same problem.
 
Thinking further, this also provides the explanation as to why we had to shim the camera so much (14 * 0.030mm shims) to get the flange focus depth correct so that it would work with any lenses at all.

Thanks for providing the answer to something that has been bugging me so much!!
 
Again thee are SOOO MANY variations on lens adapters it's hard to predict what will work and what wont. Take a look at this russian one, so much excess material deeper than the flange.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top