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Pimp my Inovativ Cart with plate receivers

Michael Tiemann

Michael Tiemann

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I'm in on the Group Buy for a new Inovativ Cart. And I ordered the Camera mount option and a 100mm bowl. But the really logical camera receiver for me is something that accepts a Touch and Go Plate 16 and/or a side-load System 30 HD plate.

Sachtler makes this sandwich, a quick-release assembly which receives a Touch and Go Plate 16 and presents as a different plate to be received by a different head form factor. What I want is a quick-release clamp that receives a plate but which can screw into the Inovativ camera mount yoke.

Does anybody know what such would be called, so I can google it? Has anybody machined this for themselves? Seems a bit complex because there needs to be a moving mechanism, not just holes and shapes applied to aluminum.
 
I've been after this for years.
My argument has always been that the cart manufacturers are calling them camera mounts when in actuality, they are tripod head mounts. Even shown in the pictures that way.

At NAB, I brought Patrick over to the Vitec booth to show him my Weapon on the CINE30. Spoke with the German rep who does not believe there would be any patent issues with copying the receiver design. We also went over to see Ryan at WC regarding market saturation on different mounts.
IMHO, going with the ARRI dovetail standard would be the best solution as - from a practical standpoint, the dovetail also supports the matte box, lens support and follow focus as a single piece. The Sachtler T&G would be more appropriate for lightweight configurations. Not to say it does't make sense for that to be an option.

Once the product is out there, it could be incorporated into other applications where you need to mount the camera rig but you did not need the functionality of pan and tilt from a head.
 
How about this Kessler Kwik Release > Matthews adapter > onto baby pin -or- into junior receiver

kessler_crane_mg1001_kwik_release_receiver_1088258.jpg

Matthews_415173_Baby_Ballhead_Adapter_826668.jpg
 
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That QR is built to handle DSLR's.
Different market.

What Michael is referring to is a quick release designed to work with the INOVATIV camera mounting system.
In his case, it would utilize the Sachtler Touch & Go plate extremely familiar to anyone who has handled professional video cameras.

I'm looking for something similar - but designed around the industry standard ARRI dovetails.

The receiver should mount directly to the horseshoe - not by stacking multiple interfaces.
 
I'm doing 2 things on my cart. Getting a set of bowls for those times I want to rig that way or even use the cart as a dolly and attaching an Element Technica dovetail to the Horseshoe clamp so I can just slide my camera off the sticks and onto the cart if need be. Same thing that's been done for a long time by many people.
 
Phil Holland said:
I'm doing 2 things on my cart. Getting a set of bowls for those times I want to rig that way or even use the cart as a dolly and attaching an Element Technica dovetail to the Horseshoe clamp so I can just slide my camera off the sticks and onto the cart if need be. Same thing that's been done for a long time by many people.
Click to expand...

I have an ET dovetail that I can attach to the horseshoe, and that makes a fine landing pad for a smaller RED setup. But if I have rods and a lens support, then I cannot just slide the camera off one dovetail and onto another. But maybe I'm just not visualizing the possibilities correctly. I have a Weapon with a Fujinon 19-90 cabrio using a RED QR setup, 19mm rods, and a lens support bridge.
 
Michael, you are visualizing the proper solution.

That's exactly what I demonstrated to Patrick (INNOVATIV) at the NAB show.
Removed the dovetail directly off of the Sachtler CINE30 with camera still riding the dovetail. Same exact receiver would be right for every head that accepts an ARRI dovetail - such as O'Connor 2575 and the like.
If you have a large lens with a support, that would travel with it. Or if you have a matte box and follow focus / rods / motors / etc.
If everything can travel from the tripod head to the cart in one setup, it makes for a faster, more secure and efficient move and setup.

Brought it up to Backstage a few years back and discussed with Matthews again - someone is going to do it.
 
Brian F Kobylarz said:
Michael, you are visualizing the proper solution.

That's exactly what I demonstrated to Patrick (INNOVATIV) at the NAB show.
Removed the dovetail directly off of the Sachtler CINE30 with camera still riding the dovetail. Same exact receiver would be right for every head that accepts an ARRI dovetail - such as O'Connor 2575 and the like.
If you have a large lens with a support, that would travel with it. Or if you have a matte box and follow focus / rods / motors / etc.
If everything can travel from the tripod head to the cart in one setup, it makes for a faster, more secure and efficient move and setup.

Brought it up to Backstage a few years back and discussed with Matthews again - someone is going to do it.
Click to expand...


This is a good idea, I don't think anyone makes something like this yet. The workaround for the Cine30 or 2575 is to use the OConnor 2575-120 quick release plate beneath the Arri Dovetail. Then split the camera from there and have a Large (120mm) Ronford Baker Quick Release (RBQ) on your cart that it can pop into. If you put a Rotating Docking Plate (RDP) beneath the RBQ, then you can easily swing the camera with long zoom lens 90 degrees to get through doors and narrow spaces.

2575-120: http://www.ocon.com/products/support-accessories/euro-style-quick-release/
Large RBQ: http://www.ronfordbaker.co.uk/products/general-accessories/
RDP: http://stores.rdp360.com/rotating-docking-plate-black/
 
Satsuki, those are very helpful suggestions. Now I want a System 30 HD receiver with a 90° swivel option ;-)
 
Satsuki Murashige said:
The workaround for the Cine30 or 2575 is to use the OConnor 2575-120 quick release plate beneath the Arri Dovetail. Then split the camera from there and have a Large (120mm) Ronford Baker Quick Release (RBQ) on your cart that it can pop into.
Click to expand...

Jeffrey M said:
Yep. Also check out:
https://cleanscamerasupport.com/product-category/quick-releases/
Click to expand...

Adding more interfaces under the dovetail means that you can adapt it onto the cart, but not back on the tripod head.
Yeah, I know, you can always modify the tripod head to match with the new interface instead.
Not quite what I had in mind.

The ARRI dovetail is an industry standard.
The need is for an individual QR dovetail design that could mount to the horseshoe.
 
The Euro standard used in the Ronford Baker Maxi Quick Release makes it perfect for the job.
I have that standard on both my ROnford (obvisouly) and my big Cartoni Sigma. It has been like this for years.

The Euro standard plate are also on some Oconnor dovetail plate.
If you want to QR your camera setup, the QR ROnford plate receiver is the way to go.
If you want to use it as a dolly, then the bowl receiver is great.

http://images.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fchewa-cine-store.weebly.com%2Fuploads%2F1%2F1%2F3%2F0%2F11302713%2F791292_orig.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fchewa-cine-store.weebly.com%2Fchewa-blog&h=733&w=1100&tbnid=vqVknoHEd4stdM%3A&docid=XxXD_3W_jEVkEM&ei=YUMvV_SrOIm1a47pg4gI&tbm=isch&client=opera&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=559&page=1&start=0&ndsp=40&ved=0ahUKEwi04LPvzsrMAhWJ2hoKHY70AIEQMwgrKAcwBw&safe=off&bih=976&biw=1569
 
Brian F Kobylarz said:
Adding more interfaces under the dovetail means that you can adapt it onto the cart, but not back on the tripod head.
Yeah, I know, you can always modify the tripod head to match with the new interface instead.
Not quite what I had in mind.

The ARRI dovetail is an industry standard.
The need is for an individual QR dovetail design that could mount to the horseshoe.
Click to expand...

Hey Michael, I have a few thoughts to share- if you want one man's humble opinion...

First, what is your definition of industry standard? To me it would be what is most commonly being used on major productions. Those productions are usually supported by major rental houses, with the majority of them being in LA (and of course there are some amazing rental houses across the USA and around the world). I worked at a rental house in LA for a number of years and there the standard quick-release plate was the full-size touch-and-go plate. It appears you have the "mini" version of this plate. You CAN get a quick release receiver for your cart like this:
https://cleanscamerasupport.com/product/mini-quick-release-base/
If that's what's on your tripod head, then you are all set.
Years ago I bought an O'Connor 1030D fluid head and it came with this "mini" plate. I bought a few of the mini receivers and put them on my cart, and another bolted to a workbench. They work great, but since these are not the standard, I ended up selling them all after a year and I went to the full-size "standard" plate. This was an expensive move because I had to replace all of my plates, receivers, and order this new OConnor plate:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...68_Large_European_Quick.html/pageID/accessory
I did this because I was often working as a 1st AC and needed the "standard" RBQ (receiving plate) on my cart to quickly attach any sub-rented camera.
Of course you can buy any type of gear you want (and there are virtually unlimited options out there) but I would strongly recommend going with the standard plate size if you plan to use gear other than your own. If you are only going to be using your own equipment, then of course you can go any direction that works best for you, your shooting style, budget, and personal preference.

As another example (as you mentioned) the Arri dovetail is also the industry standard for balancing a camera. There are different kinds of plates and dovetails made for this purpose, but the Arri dovetail is most commonly found. This dovetail attached to the regular sized touch-and-go plate is the winning combo IMO. I'm not claiming to speak for the industry as a whole, but I will bet that most major productions (at least here in LA) will back this up.

To use a few other examples, my O'Connor 1030 head is still considered light-duty. I'd have to say the 2575 with a Mitchell base is the standard, but I chose to take another path for my own needs (for size, weight and price). Still, I use the more common Mitchell base plate on my cart:
http://www.filmtools.com/mimopl.html
but I own an adapter to throw my own 1030D head on there:
http://www.filmtools.com/mitchell-100mm-ball.html

Finally, I use 19mm rods. Industry standard here in LA is still 15mm studio rods, so I do have everything I need to swap out my camera base plate, lens support, follow focus, mattebox, and even Preston mounts to 15mm if I need to. It's a lot of gear to have in order to have my own preference but still be able to work with sub-rented gear.

I am sure this is different in Europe or other parts of the world, and if you work within a group of people who are owner-operators vs. renting from rental houses. I hope this helps but again just one man's opinion based on my personal experiences. Cheers.
 
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Brian F Kobylarz said:
Adding more interfaces under the dovetail means that you can adapt it onto the cart, but not back on the tripod head.
Yeah, I know, you can always modify the tripod head to match with the new interface instead.
Not quite what I had in mind.

The ARRI dovetail is an industry standard.
The need is for an individual QR dovetail design that could mount to the horseshoe.
Click to expand...

120mm Touch and Go as found on the Large RBQ is an industry standard. The 2575-120 QR plate normally comes in the case with every 2575 and Cine 30 head you will ever rent. You don't need to use it since an Arri dovetail fits directly into the head. But for these types of situations bouncing back and forth between cart and head, this is the industry standard solution right now. The other solution currently available would be to have a second Arri dovetail on your horseshoe, but it won't be quick release and you won't be able to repo to get through doors.
 
The trouble is, you are wanting to use the Arri dovetail as a quick release plate when it wasn't designed that way. Until the 2575 and Cine 30 heads started doing it, nobody ever thought to do that. The sliding Arri baseplate on the camera was the 'quick release' in the original design. So hopefully someone will make something like that soon, but it doesn't exist yet. I suspect it will be very expensive though, especially if it needs to be able to pan as well.
 
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