Picture of a Weapon

[Jake Wilganowski]

I should have looked more into RED before I bought. I've only owned my camera for 6 months and now to keep up to date i'm going to be spending what I could have just bought an Alexa for. Not to mention all the issues I had when buying in the first place. I understand the need for progressive technology in order to stay competitive...but who is RED competing with? Not Arri. They are in a league of their own. So why not make the upgrade prices a little more fair. Now knowing that the mini mags are a better option for dragon cameras, why was i not told this when i bought? Why did my rep not explain this? It's these little things that start to build up. Just knowing that for what i would have to pay to upgrade my Epic Dragon to weapon I could have bought an Alexa just makes me sad. I guess If i had my camera a little longer and had it fully paid back then an upgrade wouldn't be such a big deal. (sorry for the vented, just feeling frustrated)

Wait have they announced the upgrade price or are you just guessing

 

[Tommaso Alvisi]

I remember reading that here as well - but if you look closely at the promo you can see what appear to be some of the leaked photos of WPN on monitors in the BG.

Who knows?

Not only that...

Guys watch the other Shane's video no one mentioned here (strangely!!!)...and look at the black case...

I think we ALL know which camera manufacturer uses that kind of rigid cases...isn't it?!?!

This one:

 

[Guy Staley]

Not only that...

Guys look at the other Shane's video no one mentioned here (strangely!!!)...and look at the black case...

I think we ALL know which camera manufacturer uses that kind of rigid cases...isn't it?!?!

This one:

Well, I'll have to say, that certainly does look a lot like a RED Epic case! AND, there's an awful lot of RED in those last few frames!

 

[Patrick Grossien]

I should have looked more into RED before I bought. I've only owned my camera for 6 months and now to keep up to date i'm going to be spending what I could have just bought an Alexa for. Not to mention all the issues I had when buying in the first place. I understand the need for progressive technology in order to stay competitive...but who is RED competing with? Not Arri. They are in a league of their own. So why not make the upgrade prices a little more fair. Now knowing that the mini mags are a better option for dragon cameras, why was i not told this when i bought? Why did my rep not explain this? It's these little things that start to build up. Just knowing that for what i would have to pay to upgrade my Epic Dragon to weapon I could have bought an Alexa just makes me sad. I guess If i had my camera a little longer and had it fully paid back then an upgrade wouldn't be such a big deal. (sorry for the vented, just feeling frustrated)

You weren't told, because it wasn't known at the time. The Bomb Squad makes their suggestions on what is and not what could be.. The mini mag at the moment is a tough decision because mags are expensive. It's not for everyone. You've got more options with the standard so my advice would've been the same back then. If you would've bought an Epic Dragon and money wouldn't be an issue I would've advised for the minis.

If you would've rather gone over to Alexa you shouldn't have bought into RED to start with. But I would've advised against that

 

[Tom Gleeson]

Dan,

I hear your frustration but thats the cycle of modern camera development. Just try owning a Sony ! I would also like to know where you are buying Alexa that cheap and comparisons are not possible as we also do not know the pricing of the weapon. Alexa is also running a four year old chip so expect a major update from Arri soon and I am uncertain if they will allow upgrades of their present cameras

 

[Brian Merlen]

Dan you have options you don't have to upgrade until nab or even June if you want? You can sell it and try to buy an Alexa classic or Amira? I don't think any of us expected the upgrades this soon is the reality but just going to do it anyway since I want the newest and red may still not get it to market fast as they expected so let's wait and see?

 

[Nick Morrison]

I should have looked more into RED before I bought. I've only owned my camera for 6 months and now to keep up to date i'm going to be spending what I could have just bought an Alexa for. Not to mention all the issues I had when buying in the first place. I understand the need for progressive technology in order to stay competitive...but who is RED competing with? Not Arri. They are in a league of their own. So why not make the upgrade prices a little more fair. Now knowing that the mini mags are a better option for dragon cameras, why was i not told this when i bought? Why did my rep not explain this? It's these little things that start to build up. Just knowing that for what i would have to pay to upgrade my Epic Dragon to weapon I could have bought an Alexa just makes me sad. I guess If i had my camera a little longer and had it fully paid back then an upgrade wouldn't be such a big deal. (sorry for the vented, just feeling frustrated)

Dan, I wouldn't worry - you won't have to upgrade right away at all. You could probably wait till 2016 and be totally fine. The only people with a clock on them are MX owners, who essentially have to upgrade by NAB to get a discount to Dragon.

Don't forget -- Dragon is still a CURRENT camera, and will be sold alongside the Weapon for quite some time (same way RED One MX and Epics were).

Only MX cameras are being phased out...

 

[Dan Rizzuto]

You weren't told, because it wasn't known at the time. The Bomb Squad makes their suggestions on what is and not what could be.. The mini mag at the moment is a tough decision because mags are expensive. It's not for everyone. You've got more options with the standard so my advice would've been the same back then. If you would've bought an Epic Dragon and money wouldn't be an issue I would've advised for the minis.

If you would've rather gone over to Alexa you shouldn't have bought into RED to start with. But I would've advised against that

What wasn't at the time? The mini mags are better for the Dragon to begin with...they offer better compression for your footage. So i don't know what you are talking about? The mags i'm talking about have nothing to do with the Weapon. It was an example of not being told about that they are faster then the regular mags. I don't think you can comment on my experience with Red when purchasing my package. It took me almost 2 months to receive all my items. There were several issues, like paying for a 5" touch LCD and then after waiting over a month, being told they are discontinued so I wont be getting one...so being forced to buy a larger more expensive monitor so I can actual use my gear. Besides, that's not the point of what I wrote to begin with. My point is the cost... 2 upgrades in one year? If you don't think they know all this ahead of time I'd have to disagree with you. Red is not your friend. They are a company after your money...and by you defending them like you are they have you right where they want you. As far as the Alexa comment goes...if i had known Red was going to be pulling upgrade stunts like this I would have bought Alexa. When you pay what we all pay for these cameras you would expect it to be a professionally run company. I've read dozens and dozens of customer service issues on Reduser.

 

[Adam Rook]

Dan, Red is not discontinuing support for your Epic. Look at what you have. It's an amazing camera. It's not like there's a time limit on your firmware and suddenly after NAB it will cease to work any longer. You made a really GREAT decision when you purchased your Red 6 months ago. None of that will change. I'm anxious to see what Weapon will fully be but I'm not worried about purchasing one. We have at least another year or two to decide to upgrade. The beauty is… we all can upgrade. All it means is you don't have the absolute latest-greatest Red has to offer. Big deal. Look at all the amazing stuff STILL being shot on Red Ones these days. Look at all the amazing stuff still coming from Epic and Scarlet MX.

So we applaud you, Dan... pat yourself on the back. You made a wonderful decision when you purchased your Red. And you can shoot with it for years and it will still be amazing.
(I just had to slip one more "amazing" in there before i finished)

 

[Dan Rizzuto]

Dan, I wouldn't worry - you won't have to upgrade right away at all. You could probably wait till 2016 and be totally fine. The only people with a clock on them are MX owners, who essentially have to upgrade by NAB to get a discount to Dragon.

Don't forget -- Dragon is still a CURRENT camera, and will be sold alongside the Weapon for quite some time (same way RED One MX and Epics were).

Only MX cameras are being phased out...

This is true. I guess from reading everything it seems like Dragon is already out dated. "weapon is an upgrade for dragon".

 

[Dan Rizzuto]

Dan, Red is not discontinuing support for your Epic. Look at what you have. It's an amazing camera. It's not like there's a time limit on your firmware and suddenly after NAB it will cease to work any longer. You made a really GREAT decision when you purchased your Red 6 months ago. None of that will change. I'm anxious to see what Weapon will fully be but I'm not worried about purchasing one. We have at least another year or two to decide to upgrade. The beauty is… we all can upgrade. All it means is you don't have the absolute latest-greatest Red has to offer. Big deal. Look at all the amazing stuff STILL being shot on Red Ones these days. Look at all the amazing stuff still coming from Epic and Scarlet MX.

So we applaud you, Dan... pat yourself on the back. You made a wonderful decision when you purchased your Red. And you can shoot with it for years and it will still be amazing.
(I just had to slip one more "amazing" in there before i finished)

haha. I understand. as mentioned before the wording of everything makes it sound like dragon is outdated because the weapon is the upgrade. I guess because my purchase experience with Red and dealing with them, wasn't a good one, it left a bitter taste in my mouth. With so many upgrades in one year it does lessen the value of all our cameras, but I understand what your saying and appreciate it.

 

[Patrick Grossien]

What wasn't at the time? The mini mags are better for the Dragon to begin with...they offer better compression for your footage. So i don't know what you are talking about? The mags i'm talking about have nothing to do with the Weapon. It was an example of not being told about that they are faster then the regular mags. I don't think you can comment on my experience with Red when purchasing my package. It took me almost 2 months to receive all my items. There were several issues, like paying for a 5" touch LCD and then after waiting over a month, being told they are discontinued so I wont be getting one...so being forced to buy a larger more expensive monitor so I can actual use my gear. Besides, that's not the point of what I wrote to begin with. My point is the cost... 2 upgrades in one year? If you don't think they know all this ahead of time I'd have to disagree with you. Red is not your friend. They are a company after your money...and by you defending them like you are they have you right where they want you. As far as the Alexa comment goes...if i had known Red was going to be pulling upgrade stunts like this I would have bought Alexa. When you pay what we all pay for these cameras you would expect it to be a professionally run company. I've read dozens and dozens of customer service issues on Reduser.

You're pretty frustrated... I can tell. At least you can lash out at others who didn't have anything to do with your experience and didn't even comment on it. You misunderstood my post as I misunderstood yours. I thought (why ever eludes me) that you purchased a Scarlet.

I only find it awkward that people voice their opinion in the way "I would've rather bought..." I like the RED cameras for what they offer and none of use would've guessed that upgrades would be coming in the way they are. But at least you have an option of upgrading it. ARRI didn't announce their customers that Amira or the mini would be coming out and definitely are not offering any credit towards the new camera to make a possible transition easier.

If you're not satisfied with the advice which has been made, tell your bomb squad rep or their superior. maybe they will try to make up for it.

That said: you bought an awesome camera and it's sad that you had a bad experience during your purchase. I didn't. My experience with RED's customer service has been more than helpful and friendly. All I can say is that the bad purchasing experience doesn't make the camera a bad buying decision. Maybe you can try to see it as a positive thing that you at least get some sort of credit towards an upgrade if you do want to upgrade sometime but you can just keep on using the dragon and shoot amazing pictures. It's not EOL and it shoots beautiful imagery.

 

[Jean-Philippe Bernier]

Dan i bought my Epic Dragon 6 month ago like you... and it took 3 month to get my LCD (wanted the 7" and was delayed, so i bought the 5" and it was back order... 3 month after i received the 7".) And yes their is a new upgrade coming up soon... But at the end my biggest regret on buying a RED is that i should have bought it 3 years ago, instead of buying a sony FS700 for a TV production. What i like in red is that you have a real path to upgrade your gear (if you want and if you need it)... note like other brand.

imagine buying an ARRI Amira. Amazing camera! and less than a year after there is the Alexa mini... with all the amira option in a smaller package and with a 4:3 sensor, raw option.

or buying a F5 or F55 (hoping you didn't bought the F65) and there is a FS7.

i know how you feel about all of this... but at the end you chose a camera that can be upgraded if you need it.

 

[Dan Rizzuto]

Dan i bought my Epic Dragon 6 month ago like you... and it took 3 month to get my LCD (wanted the 7" and was delayed, so i bought the 5" and it was back order... 3 month after i received the 7".) And yes their is a new upgrade coming up soon... But at the end my biggest regret on buying a RED is that i should have bought it 3 years ago, instead of buying a sony FS700 for a TV production. What i like in red is that you have a real path to upgrade your gear (if you want and if you need it)... note like other brand.

imagine buying an ARRI Amira. Amazing camera! and less than a year after there is the Alexa mini... with all the amira option in a smaller package and with a 4:3 sensor, raw option.

or buying a F5 or F55 (hoping you didn't bought the F65) and there is a FS7.

i know how you feel about all of this... but at the end you chose a camera that can be upgraded if you need it.

You are right. I see a little more clearly now what the upgrade is all about.

 

[Dan Rizzuto]

did not mean to lash out in anyway. Frustrated a little yes. But you have made some great points. Thank you.

 

[Adam Rook]

Dan.. you are one upstanding guy.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

My point is the cost... 2 upgrades in one year? If you don't think they know all this ahead of time I'd have to disagree with you. Red is not your friend. They are a company after your money...

That's one view.

In the other part of the glass there may be some fluid containing someone's continuous effort to make your camera more powerful and more competitive, which costs money do develop and to keep developing, fluid containing also few facts proving that your camera is still "good enough" for nine figure blockbusters and high-end projects while no one is forcing anyone to upgrade.

or buying a F5 or F55 (hoping you didn't bought the F65) and there is a FS7.

F5/55, F65 and FS7 are each targeted for different market segments with different priorities.

 

[Greg M]

Sorry, It is date night tonight

Damn, thats one lucky girl...Date nights going on 3 nights

 

[Nick Morrison]

This is true. I guess from reading everything it seems like Dragon is already out dated. "weapon is an upgrade for dragon".

Dan - I wouldn't call Dragon outdated. By all accounts, Weapon will have the same sensor - just possibly more accelerated. Dragon is still very much a viable/current/supported camera. And you are already first in line for an upgrade - you HAVE a Dragon! It's all the poor folk with an MX that need to jump to where YOU are at...that need to be worried. You will ALWAYS be eligible for Weapon, possibly for a long time. Dragon upgrades have been going on for 2 years. You could shoot with your Dragon into 2016/17 most likely, and have lots of time to jump into Weapon.

I would say you are fine.

It's the folk with MX that need to act fast...or be left behind. But you? You're ok!

The people with the biggest hit are those who bought a Scarlet MX LATE (as in end of 2013 or in 2014) who suddenly have to make TWO or THREE upgrades almost at once (to Epic MX...and then Dragon...and then Weapon?). Likewise Scarlet MX owners considering jumping to Scarlet Dragon now may be in a tight bind - as presumably they bought a Scarlet because they didn't have the funds for an Epic MX...but now need to come up with those kind of funds anyway...

So...I would consider you a lucky/fortunate/in good position RED consumer! No need to panic/worry at all!!

 

[Shane Kelly]

I think what people are forgetting here is that for a regular person to get a WPN, whatever it is, will probably be at least a year. So if you have a dragon, you will have at least another years use out of it. I agree with Nick that it's the MX people that need to think about upgrading. I'm considering it with my epic mx but would really only upgrade for the potential discounts down the line, not for the minor sensor updates. Even with the price dropping back down, it's still a difficult decision -a hell of a lot more difficult than redone to epic.
I feel that the WPN announcement is merely a response to arri's announcement of the arri mini as was the epic price slashing a response to the f55 announcement. I'll be interested to see what's actually at NAB but please god, no more "clean rooms".