Philosophy change...

[Sanjin Jukic]

That is a very wise decision, I just was just told by
BandPro that Arri is launching a 5K camera at IBC!

Good to hear they've stepped up. It's a shame they (won't mention names from Arri) keep telling me that 1080 is fine and they have no reason to do anything different. The problem there, is that they've lost my respect by lying to me.
(and I'm tired of the "soft" Alexa images anyway.

Jim, thanks for continuing to raise the bar and force others to follow suite.
I for one will miss the anxiousness of when a product will arrive, but understand the need for change in the business model.
Can't wait for more!!!

Look at below:


:attention9ha:


The gap is shrinking and the time is running.

Making overpriced and over-hyped products for the price for example that's something like a Louis Vuitton and Hermès expensive lady bag

is a very dangerous doing sort of things in this industry.

Definitely you'll get your money burned.

Don't forget one famous example of a Leica camera mistakes in the recent history (especially during the time when was owed by Hermès).

I don't see Alexa high prices to survive in a near future.

The only serious future is a strong product line with a clear vision that also has a very fast turn-around time and outstanding quality at affordable prices.

So only Epic-S and Scarlet Fixed or Interchangeable should be in the category that was described at the sentence above.

LINK>>>

 

[Kalani Prince]

I think going dark is more then logical with the exception of stuff that's been announced and publicly spec'd out for years, namely SCARLET and EPIC-S.. Going dark on these products at this point is a real bummer to what's been a loyal potential customer base thus far.

 

[Alex Detig]

To Jim:

Is there still a development for the RedOne? In Firmware, Hardware, Tools...

I think some tools, like the Redmote would be great for the RedOne too...

Cheers Alex

 

[Michael Ou]

To Jim:

Is there still a development for the RedOne? In Firmware, Hardware, Tools...

I think some tools, like the Redmote would be great for the RedOne too...

Cheers Alex

I am also interested in the future of the R1 platform. Will future sensor/brain upgrades continue to be a possible option?

 

[Scott Brown]

Apple's philosophy 100% and one that has considerable merit - only don't ever adopt their arrogant approach of telling us what we need and what we're going to get. One of the reasons Red has been so successful is the two way communication between you and your customers and discussing ideas and thoughts with your users as part your development strategy is invaluable and will allow you to stay ahead of the competition.

Scott

 

[Joseph Hutson]

I am also interested in the future of the R1 platform. Will future sensor/brain upgrades continue to be a possible option?

The event we see unfolding, in the EPIC-X now being shipped, represents a new chapter for RED.

Stage 2&3 gave all RED One owners the ability to almost "steal" an EPIC. This was to hold true to RED's vision of rendering obsolescence obsolete.

With this new chapter, RED is able to start off a fresh path. A path in which they will continually build new firmwares, softwares, color science, etc...revolving around the DSMC (DigitalStill&MotionCamera) platform instead of the original RED One platform.

Sensor upgrades for the RED One are not in RED's roadmap for the future. The "brain" upgrade for the RED One would only be a camera in the "DSMC" lineup. The EPIC-M is the only one in said lineup, which is ready to ship, while EPIC-X's have begun to ship in low quantities.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Without further details, to recap our roadmap... we have previously stated that we are working on Scarlet, REDray and a 4K projector. We also have the Dragon and Monstro sensors in development. That is all the forward thinking we can confirm and acknowledge.

The next time you will hear about any of these is when they are ready to ship.

Jim

Thanks Jim for this list, it is hard to keep up. But for forward planning it would be helpful to know that something probably is comming in the next month or two, and broad time frames in the distant future. Redray dist integration would be useful to plan for instead of the next h265. I keep waiting for Red ray and scarlet, to use. Actually, I am interested in a new media avenue that would suite something like Redray. I can contact Red off list, but a lot of others might be depending on a little heads up so they can offer Red support.

 

[Lorenzo Straight]

The same thing Newtek just did with their 'Core' program. I guess it's because people are less forgiving when you've given your word on something and it doesn't happen exactly the way it was planned.
Smart I guess

 

[Andrew Ravani]

1st off... I'll still be here.

With so much coming fairly soon, you'll get a constant stream of "pay attention tonight" posts. Instead of hearing what we are going to do, you'll be getting a constant stream of what is ready now. I will still give general roadmap hints, but they will not be as detailed as before.

If we see that our customers will need to make a decision on some emerging product, we'll help. But there is a delicate dance here. If we give you (and our competitors) all the info too soon, we are likely to be late and have helped the industry keep up with us. I'm not going to do that anymore. If we give too little info, the speculation kills us because some post that they expect us to take them to the moon and back for $20.

The solution is to surprise you early with a constant stream of great things that are ready to go.

Jim

"Under promise, over deliver." By steering clear of revealing the brand intention (and possibly clueing in the clueless competition) - Jim will make his brand stronger, even more competitive, and improve the perceived performance of the company in an environment rife with criticism from arm chair know-it-alls. Smart move, one I have been waiting for for a while now. Its brand maturity - they now have a competitive edge over the milieu of much larger companies trying to catch up with them - why give away their intentions? Would Coke announce - two years in advance - what their strategy is so that Pepsi could plan around them? No. Red is Coke now (not the white stuff - though this forum is a freebase derivative of some kind for many of us). They have to take the lead and keep on it. Otherwise they run the risk of losing all the ground they have gained over competition. I just hope that Jim hires the most scrupulous employees, has great network security, and has nicely crafted and very stringent NDA's drafted to mitigate industrial espionage. Think its paranoid? Ask Jim how important his patents and trade secrets are to the ongoing health of his company and staying ahead of his competition. Its no joke. There are people right now - I guarantee you - seeking employment at RED to then walk out with business intelligence and trade secrets that would fetch a hefty fee from any manufacturer in Shanzen working on the next RED knock off. There is a lot of money at stake here - in terms of investment, product inventory, and reputation. This move of Jim's is wise, and I expect part of a larger strategy of tightening up RED's general protection. That is good for us, the consumer, because the health of this company directly correlates to the innovations they are able to bring to our industry. Thank you Jim.

PS - I'll still be cracked out on your reduser site- but I will just expect a little less - and be even more impressed when new stuff pops up without warning.

 

[Scott Auerbach]

Apologies if this point has already been made:
Like most, I will both miss the transparency and completely understand the need to rein it in a bit.
That said, a "looser" policy regarding already-announced product pipelines (e.g. Epic-S schedule and pricing changes) would be much appreciated by those of us who have been willing to wait for those products for the last year or two. In my case it's not a matter of "worth the wait" -- I'm already on board. But if there were to be significant additional delays on the S, I'd bite the bullet and get an X before the 2012 price increase. Don't want an X; don't need an X; it'd crater my lens budget... but there's only so much longer I can go without something beyond 1080.
Congrats on Epic #1. Big news.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Apologies if this point has already been made:
Like most, I will both miss the transparency and completely understand the need to rein it in a bit.
That said, a "looser" policy regarding already-announced product pipelines (e.g. Epic-S schedule and pricing changes) would be much appreciated by those of us who have been willing to wait for those products for the last year or two. In my case it's not a matter of "worth the wait" -- I'm already on board. But if there were to be significant additional delays on the S, I'd bite the bullet and get an X before the 2012 price increase. Don't want an X; don't need an X; it'd crater my lens budget... but there's only so much longer I can go without something beyond 1080.
Congrats on Epic #1. Big news.

I have been waiting for the cheap camera from late 2007, I forget where ever it was mentioned before that. I have actually been waiting since 2003 for a cheap professional level camera, where I scrapped plans to make my own because of various incompetents supposedly on the verge of bringing something out in 2004 or so, then in 2005 or so, then in 2007/2008 I scrapped renewed plans because of various promises and also the future near term (in development terms) arrival of a cheap Red camera (within years). Each time the chill pill was rolled out, each time I also said the avenue of development was not so simple as it seemed. The only cameras to come to market apart from Red One, were by the development avenues I predicted would work, and under my, directly personally requested of me, advisement. This policy of not telling us anything more in general about the pre-existing long delayed scarlet product we have loyally waited for is more like policy that treats us like losers.

I agree that too much openness is not good concerning competition, I probably have indicated that in the past here, but I agree that particularly for the scarlet faithfull about previously announced products, the new policy is a bit far in the other direction. It would be good if we could know roughly that things are going to be delayed or it is ramping up, or will be revised, as with roughly that we might see X product without specifics, some undetermined time in the future.

 

[Brian Murphy]

Wayne,
Cheap is a word that makes me nervous when it comes to cameras, lenses and pretty much anything except beer. Well priced might be more in my thinking or good value or...
In any case, the position of the company has been stated. Jim has said that the company will continue with development of the Scarlet or Epic S, the projector etc. I wish the the S which Red has said will be in the same price range as the Sony F3 would be out now. It ain't and I got over my "tired of waiting anger' a while ago. I will just buy an F100 or an F3, shoot with it and put the sucker up for sale when the S comes out and see how if it works for me. If it does then I will go kiss the bank managers butt and buy an X.
Cheers
Murph

 

[Alex Detig]

What about...?

What about...?

To Jim:

Is there still a development for the RedOne? In Firmware, Hardware, Tools...

I think some tools, like the Redmote would be great for the RedOne too...

Cheers Alex

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Wayne,
Cheap is a word that makes me nervous when it comes to cameras, lenses and pretty much anything except beer. Well priced might be more in my thinking or good value or...
In any case, the position of the company has been stated. Jim has said that the company will continue with development of the Scarlet or Epic S, the projector etc. I wish the the S which Red has said will be in the same price range as the Sony F3 would be out now. It ain't and I got over my "tired of waiting anger' a while ago. I will just buy an F100 or an F3, shoot with it and put the sucker up for sale when the S comes out and see how if it works for me. If it does then I will go kiss the bank managers butt and buy an X.
Cheers
Murph

Yeah, but I have some idea of costings. Cheap to me is under $5000, $2000-3000, depending on the camera and volume. So, not so cheap as you say but low cost. Red has put a heavy investment in, in a reduced breadth of market, so here $5000 is low-cost. There are various ways to make a camera, and 8mp on a small low cost chip could be done for less than $200 plus storage and optics. If you want a good chip ( (just reasonable compared to the Reds) it will probably add hundreds of dollars just in cost. You will see consumer cameras with 5mp video probably this year, delayed, for hundreds maybe less than $500, maybe less than $1000, 8mp might be announced this year. Such a consumer design might be able to he made to record raw and hooked to a presentable sensor for hundreds more. I am interested in this market for the bottom end people. These are the cameras people would start out with and buy before they upgrade to a Red. Cameras professionals carry around on holidays, cameras they can whip out in a second (small version) to capture the moment. There is so much more to it than the scarlet. This is my Directors Viewfinder that I wanted to design, but Red announced a camera following the guidelines I outlined years ago in the diy digital cinema cameras projects, so here I am, bring on the scarlet.

 

[Sabyasachi Patra]

RED is unlike Sony, Canon etc. RED can make dreams/future plan/road map announcements unlike others who will be hauled up for making forward looking statements. That is your strength. To me it appears that you are throwing away your strength.

Through your vision, you had attracted large number of followers and have built a solid community. Other manufacturers don't have that. It looks that strength is going to be lost.

If you are going to seal your lips just because there have been delays in the past, then I am worried. Delay is purely an execution issue. Announcing timelines is not a problem. RED needs to strengthen the execution rather than stopping announcements. Else, you are attacking the symptom and not the root cause.

If you are going to stop announcing just because someone else is going to copy your ideas faster than you, then I think you know which areas and processes needs to be strengthened.

From a financial angle, the products sold by RED are not really be bought off the shelf like other impulse purchase items like ice creams. Some amount of planning needs to be done. If you don't share, then definitely it would be tough to plan. You are certainly going to lose out on customers. This is especially true when one is trying to start a new and important project.

I hope you would take these things into consideration once again before deciding on your approach.

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

Up 'til now, we have said what we are "going to do".

As of now, that has changed (we promised that everything is subject to change... including our strategy).

We will only announce new things when they are done and ready to ship. That includes Scarlet and all other new products and accessories.

We used to go by "always late but worth the wait". That will no longer be the case because we won't telegraph what we are planning anymore. There will be no possibility of us being late. No more "we expect this to be done by..."

From now on it will only be "Here is is and we are ready to ship".

Jim

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Yes to general roadmaps and yes to hints if there is a competitive product looking.
Jim

That's all we really need. It would be great to get roadmaps like "We're working on Full Frame X and S cameras. It'll be awesome. You won't have grandchildren by the time it's released."

 

[chadliebenguth]

That's all we really need. It would be great to get roadmaps like "We're working on Full Frame X and S cameras. It'll be awesome. You won't have grandchildren by the time it's released."

this actually made me laugh out loud. i hope we all have grandchildren when this is released.

little jarreds, jims. sounds damn fine..

 

[Paul S.]

RED is unlike Sony, Canon etc. RED can make dreams/future plan/road map announcements unlike others who will be hauled up for making forward looking statements. That is your strength. To me it appears that you are throwing away your strength.

I think we'll still get the dreams and future plans (check out Jim's comments on the direction set out by the 3D consortium), it just won't be specific to Red projects.
I can live with that.
Although in some cases it could be a bummer... like shelling out for a new bunch of glass, only to discover new electronic RPPs shipping tomorrow, or something.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

RED is unlike Sony, Canon etc. RED can make dreams/future plan/road map announcements unlike others who will be hauled up for making forward looking statements. That is your strength. To me it appears that you are throwing away your strength.

Through your vision, you had attracted large number of followers and have built a solid community. Other manufacturers don't have that. It looks that strength is going to be lost.

Personally I don't see it that way at all - this seems to be a logical step for RED.
In the past, you may have been right, but things change. I think what we're seeing is a shift from purely development into a full fledged manufacturing company.
In the past couple of years RED's strength very well may have come from the ideas and concepts they announced - but in the coming years that strength will hopefully come from the actual products shipping from their facility.

To say they will no longer make announcements until there is something solid to announce is a bold move.
It's a move that says we don't need to hype our ideas, our products (and our customers) will do everything we need to build us up.

I seriously doubt any of the strength you mentioned is going to be lost - if anything, as soon as cameras ship in significant numbers, I'm pretty sure RED is going to be stronger than ever.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Elsie N]

Up 'til now, we have said what we are "going to do".

As of now, that has changed (we promised that everything is subject to change... including our strategy).

We will only announce new things when they are done and ready to ship. That includes Scarlet and all other new products and accessories.

We used to go by "always late but worth the wait". That will no longer be the case because we won't telegraph what we are planning anymore. There will be no possibility of us being late. No more "we expect this to be done by..."

From now on it will only be "Here is is and we are ready to ship".

Jim

RED is unlike Sony, Canon etc. RED can make dreams/future plan/road map announcements unlike others who will be hauled up for making forward looking statements. That is your strength. To me it appears that you are throwing away your strength.

Through your vision, you had attracted large number of followers and have built a solid community. Other manufacturers don't have that. It looks that strength is going to be lost.

If you are going to seal your lips just because there have been delays in the past, then I am worried. Delay is purely an execution issue. Announcing timelines is not a problem. RED needs to strengthen the execution rather than stopping announcements. Else, you are attacking the symptom and not the root cause.

If you are going to stop announcing just because someone else is going to copy your ideas faster than you, then I think you know which areas and processes needs to be strengthened.

From a financial angle, the products sold by RED are not really be bought off the shelf like other impulse purchase items like ice creams. Some amount of planning needs to be done. If you don't share, then definitely it would be tough to plan. You are certainly going to lose out on customers. This is especially true when one is trying to start a new and important project.

I hope you would take these things into consideration once again before deciding on your approach.

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

These were pretty much my same feelings when I read Jim's original quote. It was as if he was saying "No more familiarity... just cold, hard business."

For whatever reason that decision was made, I personally felt a loss. Not because I needed to know every new product idea being explored, or even products being developed for production. It was because I was no longer "in the loop" of what the RED vision is. I felt excluded. It was as if RED is saying, "We're working on great things. We'll tell you when we need you to buy them."

Nothing wrong with this. All companies pretty much do the same thing.

I think we have gotten it all backwards. Many here thought RED was the child company who has grown up. It was actually we rabid customers who were the children. And now, RED the Father is saying it's time for us to grow up, so we are being left out in the cold as far as new information is concerned.

Under the old system, many, if not most of us would not have cared if another company had copied a RED idea and came to market with something similar at the same time or before. The RED way of doing business had created a fierce loyalty for the RED brand.
I hope the new policy doesn't erode that loyalty.

Maybe the general roadmaps will still keep us feeling connected.