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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

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Zakaree said:
ill sell you a t-shirt with a picture of the camera on it for $7,499.99 and call it a day.. let me know if this works.. if so ill head to the screen printer immediately
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Zakaree, I actually really want that T-shirt. But I need you to shift the decimal point over, three digits to the left. But seriously, I live in NYC and stickers are for people who drive cars. When can I get a T-shirt or a hat to wear on set?

IBloom

PS You guys should have a T-shirt design contest, winner gets a free RED.... screen printed on a T-shirt.
 
I disagree with you Mr Arthurs. RED may not be a bank, but it is a company that wants as many paying customers as it can get. This decision will keep a number of would be customers from making a purchase they planned on for a while now.. And I think you are wrong in that many people have known what they were going to do and how they were going to pay for it... The problem is they just found out they cannot do what they planned.

For RED this is a simple matter, how much business will they lose under their current payment structure. A 1.5% fee on a $25,000.00 bill is around $375.00. So the question is, how much does a lost sale cost them? More or less than $375.00. What was Jack_Felis planning on buying with his credit card purchase?

As for you telling people that a credit card purchase is a stupid idea, I cannot speak for the others, but I can say for myself, you have NO IDEA what my plans are as I have not shared them with you, therefore how can you know what I am doing is stupid. I think opinions like this are best kept to one's self.

I purchased an HVX-200 on credit card, I purchased an AJ-SDX900 on credit card, I have purchased editing systems on credit cards. We are not asking for something unusual, in fact we are asking for something the industry supports quite well.

As for RED not needing to explain themselves. Yes, actually they do. You see, all things being equal, if a customer just stands there, says nothing, and does nothing, you will end up with a board customer. If a business just stands there, says nothing and does nothing, you will end up with a business that is no longer in business.

I have respectfully asked that Jim take another look at this issue. Others have repeated that request in their own words as well. Knowing this company I have NO DOUBT Jim will not let this go unless he has no other choice. Up to this point his singular goal has been "Happy Customers" he has said it many times.

You do not agree with us and that's just fine. Nevertheless, it is our request to make, and Jim's decision.

Jay
 
Jay, you're absolutely right that your plans are yours and your business manager and are your own affairs.

My statements merely reflect the world as I see it, and the business models that I live by.

It's interesting that after I posted my opinion on the matter, I read your post that proceeded mine. Amazing how far apart two views could possibly be on the same subject, but I sure hope you wind up with your RED on terms you can work with.

Good luck
 
BajaProductions said:
Jeff.....you mentioned in another thread (that i posted to) you don't think it's legal to do CASH DISCOUNTS.
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Hey, I see what you're saying... Makes sense. Unfortunately, it would have to be something to checked legally. I do know for a fact that some states, Colorado for sure as that's where I'm located, specifically disallow this practice. But RED is obviously not based here and I don't know what California allows or does not allow. In many places, it is against the law to say "if you pay by cash instead of a credit card, you get x% discount". There are so many consumer protection laws in place today that it's hard to make sense of it all. And just as many loopholes or ways to get around such restrictions.

This tangent of discussion also makes the blind assumption that RED's limits to credit card purchases are related to transaction fees. I personally don't believe this is so. I think there are other issues. If transaction fees were the problem, then why would RED not just make an educated guess about how many CC orders to expect and adjust the price accordingly to try and compensate by making the price $17,575 or something... Transaction fees seems like a silly reason... There's often transaction fees on wire transfers or other means of payment, so why restrict credit cards because of this. More than likely it has to do with their merchant services provider, or fraud protection, insurance, etc.. And with all that said, I don't even want to guess. As it could be any of these things (even the transaction fees I doubt) or any combination, or something else entirely.

While placing a large purchase like this on a credit card wouldn't be my first choice, I do respect that some people will need to use credit cards for a significant portion of a purchase like this. I'm confident that Jim and the RED Team will find a way to accommodate every potential customer.
 
"have to cancel and go with the SI-2K."

so SI takes full payment on CC ?
so you willing pay 3-4K more for the SI 2k body that has a 2/3 " sensor then get a cash advance on your CC ( 1.5% fee) & go for a 4k - well i have to call you on this one - let me know when you get it because i do have a few shots i would like to use the mini head ( i'll need a rental) ...

the RED is priced at direct to customer lowest price ...

whatever rules there are in Mexico do not apply in the USA ....

again : if one is willing to pay the CC fee's then why don't you just go down and take out CASH on your CC ? i believe it's a 1.5 % fee ( could be less then RED's fee ??)
 
Jack_Felis said:
it's about having security in your purchase and should anything happen, such as if my film dept. dean's dream comes true and the camera's a scam, or you don't get your camera at all, or if something happens to it before or after it gets to you, you can get your money back no matter what. Wire transfer = no protection, so if the camera doesn't arrive, you're out of $17,500+.
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Let me make sure I understand this. If your red number is 634, that means your camera is shipping when? ...and if the whole thing is a fraud, you are thinking that you won't have heard about that news anywhere by that time?

I do agree that the consumer protection aspect is a very reasonable take, generally speaking. I would never do a wire transfer to a no-name vendor on ebay, for sure. But trying to see both sides of the issue here- from the vendor's point of view: If you are relying on a CC charge-back "if something happens to it before OR AFTER it gets to you" rather than working with the vendor on the issue via warranty repair, would a vendor possibly prefer to avoid your business? (note- just trying to reason this through; no offense intended towards anyone. Of course I do not speak for red, or anyone else.)
 
Hey, as I said, I don't know much about this stuff, that's just what I'm told.

As far as the SI-2K goes, I'm looking into it as we speak, or rather type. The point is that this wire transfer stuff isn't going to work for me. Not at all. A lot of businesses take credit cards for all kinds of expensive stuff, more expensive than RED, so why can't RED do the same?

EDIT: Actually Donatello, by going with the SI-2K, I'll save upwards of $5,000+ off of what I would buy with RED, but I don't have to tell you or anyone else what I exactly intend to buy from RED. Also, not everyone has to take out a loan for RED, as has been said, we've had a long time to save up. For me it's strictly the safety and guarantee that comes with using a credit card for such purchases.
 
Not to be blunt about it, but a lot of businesses charge very high markups. :-) Maybe the solution is for Red to announce a new model: Red_One_P (stands for "Plastic") which is available with new upgraded payment options and happens to cost about 2% more than the "old" model.
(PS. intended as humor.)
 
i think any scams is going to be against RED not by RED ...

off the top of my head ... i buy a red on CC ... i now have 60 days once it shows up on my bill to contest it ... so i receive my camera and shoot my movie within that 60 days ... at the end of my shoot i simply call my CC to say i contest the bill because the camera wasn't as good as stated or whatever reason i make up ... i then do not have to make any payments till the matter is resolved which could take 1-3 months which during that time i can still use the RED ...

Jack, IMO once RED hits the streets any 2/3" digital cinema camera is not going to be in demand in the rental market ... but if it is for your personal use then that is a different story and the SI 2k would be my 2nd choice as a camera to buy ...
 
I think credit cards are a significant way for independent filmmakers to get anything done, including buying camera equipment. And I do feel a tremendous peace of mind knowing that my credit card offers benefits such as 30 day theft/loss/damage protection, as well as paying for service/repairs for a year after the warranty expires. And since when do emerging indie filmmakers have rolling lines of credit at the bank. Or $20K sitting around.
 
"credit card offers benefits such as 30 day theft/loss/damage protection, as well as paying for service/repairs for a year after the warranty expires"

you better read the FINE print on your CC protection ... BofA owns most visa & mastercard company's ... they cover consumer electronics ( many have a max $ amount ) not professional items like camera 's nor do they cover auto's ... so the above statement none of it would cover a RED ...
 
I would put forth that the RED isn't a purchase for an emerging filmmaker.

Back in the day, we all would just rent/borrow/beg someone's SR/NPR/Aaton for our projects. A very small number of indies owned a sync camera, and if so, it was usually an ACL or NPR. Most of us owned a Bolex, or Arri S or the like for misc work, but no one OWNED the primary production camera.

Maybe the future POCKET CAM will be the exact ticket for those learning their chops... and the next evolutionary step from the current prosumer cameras... I don't know.

I do believe that the original idea of the RED is somewhat out of line with the reality of what the RED has evolved into. RED exceeded all original announced goals, and in the process the camera became a bit more than something the HVX crowd would automatically buy as their upgrade without a serious business plan on how to pay for it. It's a bit more than just a step up what with accessories and glass, but of course delivers a punch than can't be touched at any price point.

In a year, with some saturation at the rental house, the RED will be a very cheap option to rent, so that's something to hold out for if a purchase is out of line, and probably a better deal on the wallet unless you are actually using it every day of every week.
 
Red is for all filmmakers isn't it? It's for emerging filmmakers as much as it's for Stephen Soderbergh and Peter Jackson. Isn't that what's so cool? Isn't that part of the point? Otherwise, why not just keep the price at $100,000 and the rest of us can beg, borrow, steal and rent. If Red Inc. simply wanted to make a camera for the relatively small number of rich, established players (a la Viper), the company could easily have done that.
 
I have a feeling that this is erring on personal. I'm not attacking RED, hey, I literally am the fanboy for RED:

<--- youngest RED buyer (last time I checked)

However, this payment process is cutting me and some other people out of buying a RED. It was already a feat trying to get enough money saved up for the thing but to be cut off at the last second by an announcement of an unnerving payment process has really got me worked up. I don't need a lesson in credit cards, thank you anyway. Thankfully that's not for me to worry about yet. But if it makes things difficult for me to buy the camera then, yes, I'll be forced to jump ship no matter how desperately I want to stay on. I don't want to settle on 2K, but as has been said by many others in the past, as far as a second camera choice, the SI-2K is it and I'm looking into it, which I should if this isn't going to work out, why not?

P.S. Personally, I don't think RED is a scam, I know many who think it is, but I was mentioning that as an example. I was there at NAB and saw the things working and so did many others. I don't know why people are still negative towards it, probably the shock. But anyway, I only used that scenario as an example.
 
from Visa ... for the fine details you have to ask them for the supplement .

Purchase protection delivers another important benefit. It provides short-term protection against theft and accidental damage for purchases you've made with your Visa Platinum card. So should the unexpected happen, you can enjoy extra peace of mind
Extended warranty protects goods you've purchased with an automatic extension of the manufacturer's or retailer's warranty for up to 24 months from when you bought the item. The warranty is available on a range of goods including household electrical appliances.


What items are not covered?
Items purchased for resale, professional, or commercial use.
 
Jack_Felis said:
I have a feeling that this is erring on personal. I'm not attacking RED, hey, I literally am the fanboy for RED:

<--- youngest RED buyer (last time I checked)
Click to expand...

Hah I think I got you beat, im only 20, not 21 til oct. Looks like I hold the new title!
 
Eric Edwards said:
Hah I think I got you beat, im only 20, not 21 til oct. Looks like I hold the new title!
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Here's your crown...

*places crown on Eric's head*

:biggrin:
 
now when we get our "bill" ... will RED accept the Cailfornia 6378 exemption certificate ( knocks off the 1st 5.25% sales tax in CA) on sales tax ??
 
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