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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Payment:

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This is just my two cents. . .
I've noticed some posts where individuals are not very pleased with current final payment setup.

I personally don't see anything the matter with RED requiring those who are serious about purchasing the camera to provide final payment via wire transfer.

I think Jim has his head screwed on right.

The question I had to ask myself before I placed my orders was "Do I actually have the money for this kind of purchase? Can I afford this?".

I personally think the wire transfer is a smart idea for obvious reasons.
There's alot of credit card fraud going around these days, especially towards U.S. companies from overseas orders.
I've purchased a considerable amount of Grip, Lighting and Camera equipment from U.S. companies in the past who preferred I pay via wire transfer due to fears associated with credit card fraud, or whatever other reasoning they may have had.
It was nothing personal against me or anyone else, I think it's just the company, dealer, or manufacturer trying to watch their own backs which is perfectly understandable.

It only takes about 20 minutes out of my day on those occasions where I am required to make a wire transfer.
Sure my bank charges me a bit of a fee for the transfer, but at the end of the day it's less than paying the interest rates I'd have to pay if I had used my card for such a significant purchase.

The question is:
How badly do you really want the Camera?

It's only my opinion.
Please don't jump all over me for it.
 
I'm mostly going to stay out of this as I have no problem with a wire transfer but I understand peoples desire/need to use credit.

I just want to add one thing: with all the trimmings this adds up to be as expensive as a new car--and I have never met a car dealer, with the 5 or so new cars I have purchased in my life that would even think of taking credit cards for the entire purchase--and I have absolutly tried--to get the miles. In the end they'll float a few thousand on cards but they all insist on cash, wire or check.

Car dealers may do it for used junkers with huge markup but never in a 30+ thousand dollar new car. Never. Show me someone who did and I'll show you someone who must have gotten majorly screwed in their negotiations.

One last thing that is bugging me: I realize I'm a bit of an old timer here, but after all we've been through with jim and co over the years, all the demos, unparalleled open straight talk, not to mention the cast of heavy hitters like jackson and soderberg--if anyone has even a shred of doubt to reds integrity--they don't deserve this camera.
 
Is shipping and handling free? If not, when will these rates be known to prospect buyers?
Thanks, m.
 
Just got a few thousand miles from a car myself. ;) But yeah. There is always a limit to how many miles one company is willing to enable you to achieve--that is with the exception of educational institutions. Free trip to New Zealand oh yeah! I knew that degree was worth something!

I can see a number of reasons why you would like to put it on a credit card. (I use less than $10 in petty cash every month and the only check I write is for rent) however I do have trouble seeing how people are unable to use any other method. Yes wiretransfers are just like handing over a smelly wad of cash but it's not like you don't know where it's going or how to track down Jim and Co. if they run for the hills.

I also can't see how finance would be an issue even at $30,000. A 72 month $30,000 loan isn't a risky venture if you are making more than $30,000 a year in income. It probably wouldn't be more than about $600 a month in payments. Worst comes to worst, forget business loan and just take out a personal loan.

And if your RED camera is going to be profitable your business is going to need to make that in revenue probably at least every quarter for just one person so you had better be comfortable dealing with that kind of money responsibly.
 
Jack_Felis said:
I have a feeling that this is erring on personal. I'm not attacking RED, hey, I literally am the fanboy for RED:

<--- youngest RED buyer (last time I checked)

However, this payment process is cutting me and some other people out of buying a RED. It was already a feat trying to get enough money saved up for the thing but to be cut off at the last second by an announcement of an unnerving payment process has really got me worked up...
Click to expand...

There is something called an irrevokable letter of credit. I have used it on one occation, many years ago - it means your bank sets up a transaction where they guarantee to the vendor that the money will be paid against the goods, but do not transfer the actual money until the goods are shipped. You can include insurance against damage or loss in transit. It is the business version of COD.

If you're willing to pay a banker's fee to feel secure, you can see this as the credit card option with the purchaser paying the fee.
 
Credit cards

Credit cards

A credit card fee of 1.5% has been mentioned often on this thread. I guarantee Red would pay a higher fee. Credit card companies charge merchants higher rates for cards that offer rebates (miles, cash back, etc.). Where do you think that money comes from? The money is taken from the merchant (Red) not the credit card company. I have a Visa with a 2% cash rebate - Red's credit transaction fee on that card would be 3.5% minimum. Merchants just hate credit cards with rebates. Also merchants pay higher rates for transactions not performed in person (internet or phone orders).

Sure I'd love 2% cash back on the cameras I've ordered or airplane tickets to anywhere in the USA. This is a super high performance camera with a budget price. Red does not have a big profit margin on this camera, like, for example Sony has on their 1080p cameras.

Free shipping. Again I would not hold my breath on that one. It's a real cost. The camera will have to be packed, insured and shipped on a reliable carrier - not so cheap. If the camera is damaged in shipping Red will have to sort it out - and that will have costs for Red as well.

Red is a business. Red has already treated its future customers better than any other camera company. We are buying this camera directly from the manufacturer, if they retailed this camera the price would be thousands more.
 
I guess this discussion highlights how Red is bridging two worlds that don't really meet up very often: the established, well financed world of production and the self-financed independent artist working outside that system who would have bought a complete HVX package from B&H on their credit card. Yes, you can say that Red is infinitely better than an HVX in quality and then you can get into the argument that Red is more "pro" (whatever that means), and so maybe it's not like buying an HVX at all. But the fact is a lot of Red buyers are guys who would have bought an HVX package if Red hadn't appeared. We have had the Red money set aside in a bank account for some time but I still would have preferred buying on credit card for a number of reasons. I'm sure there are all kinds of factors that would make Red want to avoid credit cards, but again, I do think the reaction of many prospective users highlights exactly what is cool about Red: a broad spectrum of artists and filmmakers is devoted to this camera. Not just guys with established credit facilities at their bank. Even so, most Redusers will find a way to swing it, I suspect, even if it involves begging, borrowing and stealing. When's the last time I was going to be able to own a camera that is the production camera of choice for someone like Stephen Soderbergh?
 
It's a numbers game. Accepting credit cards will cost money in fees. Not accepting them will cost money in sales.

Logic suggests that while RED is in the driver's seat, and does not have to offer this convience to it's customers, it will not do so. If and/or when sales slow, and RED wants to increase it's reach, then it will look at this again as a way to get those customers that may use plastic and nothing else.

This is not about the camera, it's about profit vs. expense. Right now someone at RED has most likely said "Why take credit cards for the whole thing? It's expensive, and these RED heads will find the money one way or the other!".

If someone did say this, they'd be right.... For now.



Jay
 
donatello said:
now when we get our "bill" ... will RED accept the Cailfornia 6378 exemption certificate ( knocks off the 1st 5.25% sales tax in CA) on sales tax ??
Click to expand...

Hey donatello,
Where can i find this exemption certificate.. i remember seeing it a while ago and i printed it out but i lost the location (this is coming from ME as a REDUSER/purchaser:) )
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
It's a numbers game. Accepting credit cards will cost money in fees. Not accepting them will cost money in sales.

Logic suggests that while RED is in the driver's seat, and does not have to offer this convience to it's customers, it will not do so. If and/or when sales slow, and RED wants to increase it's reach, then it will look at this again as a way to get those customers that may use plastic and nothing else.

This is not about the camera, it's about profit vs. expense. Right now someone at RED has most likely said "Why take credit cards for the whole thing? It's expensive, and these RED heads will find the money one way or the other!".

If someone did say this, they'd be right.... For now.



Jay
Click to expand...

If RED has 2500-3000 confirmed reservations then you gotta believe
they may have had a fair amount of problems with many transactions.
With Oakley I am sure Jim shipped to suppliers and also had his
share of problems with several creditors. Why the $7,500 limit, don't know?
RED will not have any problem selling cameras. They won't "lose" sales
as the pipeline of customers is there. For those folks who cannot swing
the cash upfront then I would suggest bowing out - work your ass off and
save your money. You can always get back in line. It might delay your
RED dream for 6-9 months, but waiting instead of stressing
might be what many people need to do right now.
 
Intelsat said:
A credit card fee of 1.5% has been mentioned often on this thread. I guarantee Red would pay a higher fee. Credit card companies charge merchants higher rates for cards that offer rebates (miles, cash back, etc.). Where do you think that money comes from? The money is taken from the merchant (Red) not the credit card company. I have a Visa with a 2% cash rebate - Red's credit transaction fee on that card would be 3.5% minimum. Merchants just hate credit cards with rebates. Also merchants pay higher rates for transactions not performed in person (internet or phone orders).
Click to expand...

The 1.5% discount is likely very close to accurate for a company with the financial strength of RED. Where credit card issuers make the bulk of their returns is not from merchant discounts, but from the difference between their borrowing power and the lending rate. Interest from the card holders represents the bulk of the profits they enjoy.
 
Jim Arthurs said:
Folks, may I respectfully submit that RED is not a bank, a financial institution, or for that matter, your best friend willing to give you a loan, or do individual financial planning to help make your dreams come true.

They are in business to make money. If they feel that there are good reasons reasons they don't want to take the full amount of a RED on a credit card, that's that. And by simply telling us so, that's as far as they need to go to explain things to us.

This day was coming, the day when reality sets in and suddenly a thousand plus people realized that they need to somehow get their hands on between $16,500 and $40,000 US pretty quickly. I give RED props by giving you a full month to get your finances in order from the time your unit is ready, but in reality, we've all had WAY longer than that. IT'S NOT THEIR PROBLEM. IT'S OURS.

There have been very valid suggestions on alternatives for you to pursue in this thread. A small business loan makes great sense if you don't have cash on hand. Get with your financial insitution, and start talking to them NOW. If it works out that the ONLY option you have is an unsecured loan at staggering interest, then I'd also submit that maybe you should hold off and rent for a while.

Credit cards are NOT the answer for this sort of purchase. No sane business manager in the world would suggest that you go that route.

Get a good business plan together... show how you intend to pay off the RED and put it to use.

There's a reason my serial number is in the 400's and I didn't sign up at NAB. NOT for lack of enthusiasm on my part... I simply waited until my HVX earned enough money to buy the RED and give me some sort of indication of how long and hard I'd have to use it to pay it off. I'm a VFX guy first, a shooter second, and the numbers had to work on any sort of non-trivial purchase.

That old saying is wrong, you CAN put a price on dreams, and sometimes you have to realize you can't afford them.
Click to expand...

You sound so pompous, please just speak for yourself and try not to push your sensibilities on to others. Your life decisions are your own and does not reflect the lives and the decisions of others on this board... Just keep it to yourself.

Kindest Regards

Method
 
Sean said:
I guess this discussion highlights how Red is bridging two worlds that don't really meet up very often: the established, well financed world of production and the self-financed independent artist working outside that system who would have bought a complete HVX package from B&H on their credit card.
Click to expand...

Great summary of the debate. We've financed several six figure purchases over the years, so the Red price tag is really rather small. Borrowing money to buy gear is easy, if you have the established cash flow to show a lender. If you do not, you should really be asking yourself how you plan to pay for this gear. This industry is littered with the bodies of individuals who bought a state-of-the-art "whatever" and hoped they'd develop the clients to pay for it. Our philosophy, is that we don't buy gear unless we have the CASH on hand, or know that our existing client base will want the gear and pay enuf to justify the purchase.

If these types of questions scare or anger you, you are not basing your purchase on sound business judgement.

P.S. As a company that accepts CC's, the post re extra fees is "100% accurate." Not to mention the different fees structures of Amex vs. VISA and the higher fees for corporate and international cards. RED cannot accomodate all these different fee structures and should not be expected to. Paying for the camera is each person's responsibility. There are solutions for this, but they require effort on your part.

RA Post
 
Method said:
You sound so pompous, please just speak for yourself and try not to push your sensibilities on to others. Your life decisions are your own and does not reflect the lives and the decisions of others on this board... Just keep it to yourself.

Kindest Regards

Method
Click to expand...

Warm regards received... but one question... Why would I or you ever post if we weren't expressing our own point of view or life decisions?

I make no apologies for anything I post. It's easy to think that because we've grown to know Jim and the RED team that we're all friends and friends help friends with money... that somehow they should take your advice on HOW to take your money. They've more than met us half way, by bringing such an amazing bargain to to the market in the first place. Everyone that feels they owe you even more assumes too much, methinks!

RED is an amazing product, but it's not free, nor is it in the range of someone that should be a first time HVX customer. Nor should it be. It's the extreme top end of the market at a lower mid-level price. And that price may force some to put off the purchase, or re-evaluate their needs.
 
HVX bashing

HVX bashing

I had to say this....
What's with all the hvx bashing. That camera has made me a lot of money and my library has grown significantly.

I bought my HVX, XLH1, Z1U and just about everything else on CC through B&H. --- If B&H can do it why not RED? ....only a hypothesis, but if it wasn't good business wouldn't B&H be out of it? --- i only use them as a model since i believe they do some huge cc business with similar merchandise.

I'd like to do the same with my RED. Has nothing to do with poor planning or bad business decisions nor a business plan. BUSINESS PLAN??? yeah right. Never wrote one in my life, never will....and i don't mean any disrepect to all those that do. I'll live and die by my own decisions, contacts and ability, not something put to paper.

Is wiring money a sound business decision? I really don't think so. Does it mean i don't believe in RED? Don't think so. Never would have been on this train if I didn't believe in it.

If at the end of the day RED says no cc's.....OK, so I'll be dissapointed. But i really don't like the idea of a wire transfer-no matter how well established the company. That seems like loaning money to my neighbor and then the what happens when he gets hit by a truck. Just trying to see the other side of the coin (so to speak) here and play devils advocate. RED must make a sound financial decision for themselves....but also me as a consumer must make a good sound decision as well. I can't think of many purchases I would EVER make if my only option was a wire transfer. if that's the case I would of course prefer to hop on a plane and pick the camera up with cash, bank draft or cashiers check. Seriously....would you really wire money to vendors as a normal course of doing business? I have to say i actually do, but i'm a nervous nelly until i get my product or service.

.....again no disrepsect to RED and their end financial decsions. But jez.....how about some options other than cold, hard cash sent down the pipeline. :poster_spam:
 
Out of state tax

Out of state tax

Hey Zakaree,
Congrats. I'm in Maryland. That means there are no taxes on my purchase right? Only shipping. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.
 
Kewel... (Cool)
I don't envy you. I know you're getting smashed because it's crunch time.

Cheers
 
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