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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Panavision DXL-M

Mike S. said:
Sure, your scenario is what every RED user would love. But since nobody knows what the deal between RED and Panavision is, we just don't know. RED as far as I know doesn't make their own sensors. It's entirely possible Panavision is just getting the sensor from the same supplier but with a different CFA. The fact again is nobody knows. So you spreading your rumors is not any better, helpful or more true than what Panavision is saying.
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Sorry, this is just not right.

Everyone KNOWS the DXL-2 and DXL-M are manufactured BY RED for PANAVISION. It's no secret. The DXL's literally use MINI-MAGS, which are RED media.
 
Nick Morrison said:
Sorry, this is just not right.

Everyone KNOWS the DXL-2 and DXL-M are manufactured BY RED for PANAVISION. It's no secret. The DXL's literally use MINI-MAGS, which are RED media.
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The bodies or the sensors? I think he's saying something different.
 
David J. Buchanan said:
The bodies or the sensors? I think he's saying something different.
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As far as I know, DXL2's use a RED Monstro sensor, and the bodies are manufactured by RED, to Panavision's specs.

It's not that much different than the Xenomorph RED made for Fincher.

Except now it's even more elaborate, with a custom OLPF, and other internals, etc that Panavision asked for.

But the DXL2 is, without question, 100% a custom camera platform that RED is making for Panavision.


That anyone would even QUESTION Peter Lyons Collister, ASC about this...is kind of disappointing. We are better than this.
 
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Nick Morrison said:
As far as I know, DXL2's use a RED Monstro sensor, and the bodies are manufactured by RED, to Panavision's specs.

It's not that much different than the Xenomorph RED made for Fincher.

Except now it's even more elaborate, with a custom OLPF, and other internals, etc that Panavision asked for.

But the DXL2 is, without question, 100% a custom camera platform that RED is making for Panavision.


That anyone would even QUESTION Peter Lyons Collister, ASC about this...is kind of disappointing. We are better than this.
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Agreed, if we're talking about the body. But I heard the sensors are unknown where they are made.
 
David J. Buchanan said:
Agreed, if we're talking about the body. But I heard the sensors are unknown where they are made.
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nonsense.

The sensor in the first and second version of the DXL and also the small Panavision camera and the cameras themselves are 100% made by RED.

The sensors are the exact same as everyone purchases. The large camera is custom and the small camera is an ordinary camera with a larger production oriented module that has similar functionality to an offhollywood OMOD. we especially appreciate the integrated tri-sync lockit built into the module.

re: look, both cameras have a custom OLPF. Similar concept to getting one of KipperTie's OLPFs. Panavision isn't selling their's. It is optimized for a lit set (the projects that choose Panavision almost all have lighting budgets). I consider this, more than the LiteIron Lut, to be 'special sauce', although I wouldn't overstate it. The various OLPFs available for REDuser are ALL good.

The LUT has been created by LiteIron. Its more like a film LUT than a TV (Rec709) LUT. Arri now has a gazillion LUTs. We make custom LUTs all the time. Lite Iron is a really good finishing house and they created a LUT for the camera. I bet they have a gazillion LUTs for the camera or use the LUT referred to here as a stepping off point from which they tweak it further. So there's will be a nice LUT that doesn't lead someone astray re: exposure and emphasizes a filmic image presentation. Again, I'm sure DPs and DITs (and I suspect Lite Iron as well) modify their LUTs to serve the specific creative needs of the project.

Pretty cool. And also something that every REDuser can pretty closely approximate -- so consider it a vision to improve your game :)
 
I don't think you guys are understanding what I'm saying... I don't mean to say that RED isn't the main people behind the tech or whatever, but basically, I'm saying they aren't the alchemists of the sensor. Unless they have stated otherwise, but all the research that I've done, and folks that I've spoken with don't know (maybe under NDAs?) where any of the RED sensors are made. Again, if I'm wrong, point me into the right direction, either way I'mma shut up about the topic.
 
I wouldn’t mind paying 1000+ for light iron’s luts and olpf combo. Would be great for us non dxl monstro’s to be able to access them, making them one more choice for those wanting a certain look different to the great ones Red Provides us, similar to what John Marchant is doing with his great products!
 
Sergio Perez said:
I wouldn’t mind paying 1000+ for light iron’s luts and olpf combo.
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This is Panavision's whole business model. Create something that's exclusive, that people really want and then make it rental only.

By the way, no one literally makes their own sensors. Even Sony's camera devisions are distinct customers of the Sony sensor fab plants. There are only a very few sensor fab companies that can make these sensors and most of them are companies you've never heard of. What matters is the design itself which is the IP of the company placing the order.

JB
 
David J. Buchanan said:
The bodies or the sensors? I think he's saying something different.
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Indeed I was talking about something totally different.

I was talking about the sensor. RED doesn't make the sensor. They order from somebody else most likely. ARRI also doesn't make their own sensor. Very few companies make their own sensor. From all the camera companies I think Sony is the only one which makes their own sensor. But even them, for being such a large company, you can say another company under their umbrella and also named Sony makes the sensor for the camera division.
 
Mike S. said:
Indeed I was talking about something totally different.

I was talking about the sensor. RED doesn't make the sensor. They order from somebody else most likely. ARRI also doesn't make their own sensor. Very few companies make their own sensor. From all the camera companies I think Sony is the only one which makes their own sensor. But even them, for being such a large company, you can say another company under their umbrella and also named Sony makes the sensor for the camera division.
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From the VV Update Thread last year:
Jarred Land said:
This week we got in a monster batch of VV sensors with a yield so high that it's off the charts.. More perfect sensors in this single batch than we have had in 2 years...

Initial package testing was completed this morning and the results of months and months and months of incredible hard work from our incredible engineering team looks to have finally paid off.

1505516138.jpg
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If nothing else, this post points to the direction that somebody else manufactures the sensor wafers.
It also, other than the interest of curiosity, with the second sentence shows that it really doesn't matter due to RED's huge engineering role behind the sensors anyway.

There also was the RED Factory Tour, which didn't show any signs of sensor production being done in-house.
To play Devil's Advocate, on the chance they do fabricate their own sensors, they could have just chosen not to show that.
 
David J. Buchanan said:
I don't think you guys are understanding what I'm saying... I don't mean to say that RED isn't the main people behind the tech or whatever, but basically, I'm saying they aren't the alchemists of the sensor. Unless they have stated otherwise, but all the research that I've done, and folks that I've spoken with don't know (maybe under NDAs?) where any of the RED sensors are made. Again, if I'm wrong, point me into the right direction, either way I'mma shut up about the topic.
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Unfortunately brother you are misinformed about this.

RED does indeed make their own sensors, which is seriously cool for a company of their size. They have stated it for years and it is a widely known fact.

It's a very important part of RED's business model. It's also why a custom sensor was made for a client doing business in space travel and is now available to us in the Gemini camera.
 
paul engstrom said:
Unfortunately brother you are misinformed about this. RED does indeed make their own sensors, which is seriously cool for a company of their size. They have stated it for years and it is a widely known fact.
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There's been a lot of speculation about it around here for at least 10 years, but nobody has stepped up and said "yes, a big factory with the Red Camera® logo on it makes their own sensors." I think they have the chips custom made by a large specialist company in the far east. (My guess is Malaysia, but I think they keep this close to the vest for competitive reasons.)

Still, you can't underestimate the importance of Red's camera body design, their assembly, their QC, and all their accessories. All of that counts for a lot. The camera is a lot more than just the sensor. And I would bet they go through quite a number of sensors to get one that's good enough to sell in a $30,000+ camera.

It's been stated that ON Semiconductor makes the Alexa sensors for Arri, and here's a link to that story (from 2017):

http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/newsItem.do?article=3723

If you have proof as to who makes the Red pickup, please give us a link and share the information.
 
Marc Wielage said:
There's been a lot of speculation about it around here for at least 10 years, but nobody has stepped up and said "yes, a big factory with the Red Camera® logo on it makes their own sensors." I think they have the chips custom made by a large specialist company in the far east. (My guess is Malaysia, but I think they keep this close to the vest for competitive reasons.)

Still, you can't underestimate the importance of Red's camera body design, their assembly, their QC, and all their accessories. All of that counts for a lot. The camera is a lot more than just the sensor. And I would bet they go through quite a number of sensors to get one that's good enough to sell in a $30,000+ camera.

It's been stated that ON Semiconductor makes the Alexa sensors for Arri, and here's a link to that story (from 2017):

http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/newsItem.do?article=3723

If you have proof as to who makes the Red pickup, please give us a link and share the information.
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Just call Mark Zuckerberg or Larry Page (or one of their employees), they can tell you in a second where somebody was at what time.
 
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