Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Panavision DXL-M

Daniel Stilling said:
The good folks at Panavision told me that they are considering selling these accessories. They havent decided yet. They told me that we should be bombarding social media asking for it, tagging them, so they'll see that there is demand for their bits out there.
Click to expand...

You can have all kinds of opinions on Michael Cioni, but he sure knows how marketing and PR works.
 
Daniel Stilling said:
The good folks at Panavision told me that they are considering selling these accessories. They havent decided yet. They told me that we should be bombarding social media asking for it, tagging them, so they'll see that there is demand for their bits out there.
Click to expand...

Electronic ND is needed yesterday. Can't believe no one made it up until now and put it on the market.
 
Randall Weatherington said:
Years ago Panavision was the subject of a legal action that went all the way to the FTC.
The FTC ruled that if something is offered for rental, it must also be offered for sale, so Panavision put ridiculously high prices on the Panaflex camera that discouraged people buying them.
One might expect the same thing here.
Click to expand...

What?? In what world would the FTC come to this conclusion? If you rent, you have to sell? Please provice citation for this.
 
I'm sure they can keep offering it exclusively too but it'd make me happy if they sold it. I really hope they sell it because many people want access to it outside of rental only access. I know ultimately they are a luxury brand and can easily limit access but red has always been enthusiastic about giving access out and it would be really cool for me to have this color science personally. I understand if ultimately it stays rental only but I personally dream of having my red more on par with there system. Perhaps I can sublease a red with them ultimately if this fails and then I can still have it anyway? But I'm open to buying it outright too
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
Electronic ND is needed yesterday. Can't believe no one made it up until now and put it on the market.
Click to expand...

Tessive and Red have both already offered this tech going back a long time.
I’m really interested in whether Panavision have overcome the inherent polarisation problem with this design.
I have to think they’re crazy to change their rental exclusive model regardless. Creating and retaining unique hardware is their DNA.
 
Well John your system is a good plan b for me with custom filters outside of ND? At least if I upgrade to Gemini I can have built in ND? Plus I hope you release even more custom options. I also bothered mark at offhollywood to consider something like that in the Omod line cuz custom Olpf stuff doesn't need to remain dxl only if they choose not to sell it cuz guys like me want to differentiate our reds from the masses and will buy any products to do so available on the market, assuming someone puts them on the market to begin with like you two do
 
Randall Weatherington said:
Years ago Panavision was the subject of a legal action that went all the way to the FTC.
The FTC ruled that if something is offered for rental, it must also be offered for sale, so Panavision put ridiculously high prices on the Panaflex camera that discouraged people buying them.
One might expect the same thing here.
Click to expand...

You're going to have to do better than simply saying this, because I don't remember anything like that, and I doubt that others here do either. Not to mention that it sounds like a very unlikely decision for the FTC to hand down, particularly without a challenge. Not to mention that nearly every major post production software vendor (and many other companies as well) would now be violating such a rule with subscription only models.
 
A real equivalent product to PVs LCND has definitely not been around for years... the teck is probably not new but that is not the same thing.

The hope is with PV that they won't bring out a product with colour issues, polarisation issues or other artefacts.... Saying that, my suspicious mind is troubled when a variable ND video is shown in black in white..;-)
 
The FTC and Panavision have not had any legal entanglements, nor has there been any ruling by an official representative entity of the government of the United States of America involved in the regulation of commerce that states any good offered for rent must be made available for purchase.
 
Michael Lindsay said:
A real equivalent product to PVs LCND has definitely not been around for years... the teck is probably not new but that is not the same thing.

The hope is with PV that they won't bring out a product with colour issues, polarisation issues or other artefacts.... Saying that, my suspicious mind is troubled when a variable ND video is shown in black in white..;-)
Click to expand...

You're right the one Jacek pointed out and the one on the Sony FS5 are more sophisticated and stepless.
The one on the new panasonic 8k sensor is next level tech.

It's great technology for run and gun or live shooting, don't see the benefits in big budget feature films where there is enough time to do it the old fashioned way with high quality ND filters and a matbox.
 
Oh yes the Sony FS5 one... The PV filter is probably more that the whole camera but who is counting ;-)
 
Misha Engel said:
It's great technology for run and gun or live shooting, don't see the benefits in big budget feature films where there is enough time to do it the old fashioned way with high quality ND filters and a matbox.
Click to expand...

One benefit would be the ability to change ND during a shot. On one of their Instagram stories yesterday they had specifically brought up doing it concurrent with racking iris. Obviously not a thing for every shot, but it seems like a lot smaller footprint than the alternative, Cinefade, which was used on The Commuter.
 
Brandon Veen said:
One benefit would be the ability to change ND during a shot. On one of their Instagram stories yesterday they had specifically brought up doing it concurrent with racking iris. Obviously not a thing for every shot, but it seems like a lot smaller footprint than the alternative, Cinefade, which was used on The Commuter.
Click to expand...

You can do that in post production.
 
It looks like Panavision's attempt at an answer to the ARRI Alexa Mini. Something definitely needed. Interesting that they would use the same nomenclature. There was also an Alexa-M before the Mini and I'm sure DXL-M means DXL Mini.

It being Panavision it looks great from an accessorization point of view. Panavision doing what they do best! Looks like a great tool and companion to the DXL.

By the way, anybody knows the story behind Panavision's side rails? At first I thought it would be to keep the center of gravity low. But it still needs to sit on a dovetail bridge plate. So not any lower really.
 
Misha Engel said:
Sony FS5 in 2015.
Click to expand...

External one.

FS7II also has it internally. And recently introduced PXW-Z280 and Z190.


Jacek Zakowicz said:
Hardly,
This has been around for couple of years:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...rZ8oUXdbfexlNHOK6HkcdO0Brvum_XORoCmPkQAvD_BwE
Click to expand...


Not for cinema cameras using cinema glass.


John Marchant said:
Tessive and Red have both already offered this tech going back a long time.
I’m really interested in whether Panavision have overcome the inherent polarisation problem with this design.
I have to think they’re crazy to change their rental exclusive model regardless. Creating and retaining unique hardware is their DNA.
Click to expand...

To my understanding that is not the same tech.
Tessive tech uses intra-frame fluctuations which adds more variables in optical properties of rapidly changing liquid crystal molecules.

Didn't notice polarization issues using FS5.
So unless Sony has shot themselves in the foot implementing it on 5 cameras so far, it is logical to conclude it can work.
 
From what the Panavision tech explained, it is internal "crystals" that are re-aligned electronically to produce the ND strength or fader. You won't experience any of the blocking or inconsistencies associated with standard ND faders. It was also pointed out that the internal ND on the FS5II uses electronic in-camera compensation to create the smooth transition. The panavision LCD system is filter only. No in-camera adjustments. Pricing was told is probably going to be around $2,000 USD or less.

On the sidenote, it would be time changing to see Panavision start offering sales on main product lines. The market has changed. In the past it used it be only a couple big rental houses. Now there is over 100 rental houses in Los Angeles alone! Plus all the owner/operators.
 
PV has gotten a lot of mileage out of their rental only model. Perhaps the evolution of the industry has created an opportunity to add sales to their mix. That said, what would a SWOP analysis of expanding beyond high end rentals look like for PV?

For starters, rental only has served PV well for a loooong time. If they offered modules/AKS/lens mount solutions/killer EVFs/etc for sale, they would have to compete against those buyer's kitted up cameras in the rental space - potentially impacting rental margins. Sure, Panavision's legendary support would justify some premium - but how much?

IAC, mark me down as one of the many owner/ops who would love to kit out my CF Weapon Monstro with PV bits if they do decide to sell them outright.

Cheers - #19
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top