Panasonic S1H II Rumors - Let's Get Real

[Zack Birlew]

Alright, the rumors are out there now and they say the announcement is close, the 8K Panasonic S1H Mark II could be on its way!

Now, let's get real. Yes, it's not a RED, yes, it's not an Arri, yes, it's a mirrorless hybrid and not a digital cinema camera, however, it is absolutely going to be Netflix approved as the original S1H is already Netflix approved but it will now offer full frame 8K. While the Canon R5, R5C, Fuji XH2, Sony A1, A7RV, and Nikon Z9 are 8K and put out some nice footage, they aren't Netflix Original approved cameras.

Even taking a step back, there has been a $1,000 drop on the BS1H box camera price, making it a $2,500 6K camera and with the discount applying to a bundle kit for the Atomos Ninja V making it a compact $3,500 6K RAW Netflix digital cinema setup. For 6K video, this price drop alone for the BS1H puts the idea of a used Epic Dragon to rest and that's not counting the mirrorless mount system, open media options, or full frame sensor and now there's going to be an 8K version of it if rumors hold true.

While we, as filmmakers, have done all the discussions and complaints before about the Netflix approved camera list, it is still standing as a factor for someone buying a new digital cinema camera and once again, while we have RED and Arri as default options, the S1H Mark II sounds like a serious professional competitor for the lower end in the $3,000-$5,000 range and if it holds true to the excellent performance of the original S1H, then that is most definitely going to have an impact on the resale market for RED products.

As it stands currently, I still have an eye out for the Sony Venice 2 to use for my next feature (most likely rent) but for the small backup/personal camera, newer developments from the competition are making cameras like the S1H II look very interesting and that's taking attention away from the usual RED and Arri side of things. Whatever RED's got coming down the line, I hope they're aiming high because with Panasonic coming to the 8K party, it's clear that the competition has firmly caught up.

 

[Brian Timmons]

At the end of the day "Netflix approved" matters if you're doing a project specifically for Netflix.
Some do get influenced by the Netflix approval hype and it's usually misguided as many of those projects
are not being created for Netflix and has little to do with the needs of their own projects, clients, etc.

Pretty much all of the cameras you mentioned can have a positive use case somewhere in the wide world of filmmaking
it's just a matter of pairing up the strengths with what the realities of your production (both principal shooting and post-production )and making sure you can manage the potential pitfalls.

I'm always happy to see Panasonic come out with something new though I hope to eventually see something from their higher end broadcast division. (i.e Varicam).

RED is already pushing the envelope. They just need to keep pushing and leave some room to listen to customer feedback to make their cameras even better.

BTW- no hate on the Venice 2 as it makes solid images but would you seriously pick that over a V-Raptor?
Other than already being heavily invested in a Sony workflow or you have overbearing producers limiting your choices
(because Top Gun 2 was shot with it) I'm not sure I see the appeal over what V-Raptor does.
Perhaps you're shooting anamorphic?

Again, all of these cameras are great in their own way.
I do get curious about what preferences others have and the reasons behind them.
The V-Raptor's price, size (body and sensor), frame rates, and workflow go a long way in covering the bases to me.

Whatever you pick do it with conviction and be your own authority.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Zack Birlew]

About the Venice 2, yeah, we're definitely thinking anamorphic and using the 8K sensor version but, without giving it away, some interesting optics to boot!

For the V-Raptor, it's nice and all but it's becoming clear that lower end 8K options like the potential S1H II are coming well within up front fighting distance in terms of image quality and features when used in RAW modes and on the high end compared to the Venice 2 which offers low light as well as 8K and flexible workflow options like the lightweight sensor extension mode, that's literally more camera to work with and makes it a much more interesting creative option.

This is also without considering dropping in an URSA 12K and/or DJI Ronin 4D in the mix for both frame rates and potential flexible filming situations so the V-Raptor isn't standing out enough for an A-camera in my book and there's also the specter of the split sensor line issue that nobody else seems to have so, for my money, I need RED to come up with something else but I've said V-Raptor wasn't for me even when they announced it. So unless I got one for major discount or RED hired me for something, I can't creatively consider the V-Raptor, I appreciate and respect the progress but I want RED to do more.

 

[Phil Holland]

You should really, really spend a day testing these cameras deeply. Or two, or a week. All I can really say.

 

[Brian Timmons]

About the Venice 2, yeah, we're definitely thinking anamorphic and using the 8K sensor version but, without giving it away, some interesting optics to boot!

For the V-Raptor, it's nice and all but it's becoming clear that lower end 8K options like the potential S1H II are coming well within up front fighting distance in terms of image quality and features when used in RAW modes and on the high end compared to the Venice 2 which offers low light as well as 8K and flexible workflow options like the lightweight sensor extension mode, that's literally more camera to work with and makes it a much more interesting creative option.

This is also without considering dropping in an URSA 12K and/or DJI Ronin 4D in the mix for both frame rates and potential flexible filming situations so the V-Raptor isn't standing out enough for an A-camera in my book and there's also the specter of the split sensor line issue that nobody else seems to have so, for my money, I need RED to come up with something else but I've said V-Raptor wasn't for me even when they announced it. So unless I got one for major discount or RED hired me for something, I can't creatively consider the V-Raptor, I appreciate and respect the progress but I want RED to do more.

I always said that you never truly know a camera until you take it from shooting and into post (media management, conforming, color correction, to archive).
I can't say I've taken all of the cameras you mentioned from set to post production but I have to admit my doubts that you're going to get anywhere close to the same quality and ease of use as you would in a V-Raptor.

I've seen V-Raptors renting for below $500 which on average is considerably less than a full Raw Venice 2 package.
They also handle anamorphic well enough.

You know your cost and your vision so I'll respect that.
Best I can say is test.
EDIT:
(looks like Phil beat me to it on that last line).

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Bruce Allen]

None of RED's cameras offer FF anamorphic. You're paying $$$$$ for a "Full Frame" camera... with S35+ anamorphic sensor height.

For $2000, the Panasonic S5II offers great anamorphic capabilities and a much better sensor for full frame anamorphic (or spherical commercial work that needs 1x1 / 4x5 / 9x16 versions which is... a lot of stuff actually) - except for that rolling shutter. It's a very interesting B or C cam for a real full frame camera like Sony Venice, Alexa LF or even a Mavo 8K (Matt Uhry and I used that on a bunch of directing jobs, tons of fun in a tiny package).

I'm very interested to see if the Panasonic S1H II can:
- decrease rolling shutter
- increase dynamic range half a stop
- improve the monitoring pipeline (less HDMI delay etc)... heck do a S1H IIx with HD-SDI out (or maybe they could use a name instead of keeping adding numbers and letters and mk2s!)

I don't honestly care if it's 6K or 8K or 4K or 3.2K for that matter. Just saw RRR at the TCL Chinese IMAX last night... you could clearly see it's a 2K master but nobody cared. I would put latitude, color and rolling shutter much higher in my priorities.

Netflix certified is only really useful if you're hired by Netflix to produce content for Netflix. Everything Everywhere All at Once shot on Alexa Mini, seemed to do OK.

Bruce Allen
www.bruceallen.tv

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

I don't think that the S1H was a market-ready product TBH. The VV frame rates were limiting and there is too much rolling shutter. On the plus side, very good DR, sensitivity, and image quality. I would prefer a GH6, personally, for video. For photos, both are excellent. I'd still take the GH6. I'd probably pick the GH5 over the S1H.

The S2H is going to be great, because it has to be.