Optimus Prime

[Christopher Barrett]

LoL... wazzat Paul? What video? is it on the Abel blog? I do wanna see Tim's review of the Schneiders before I commit but I don't think I can hold out till NAB... besides... anything announced at NAB will be available when? 2012?

 

[paul engstrom]

Just messin with ya

Get the Cookes!!! And don't look back!!

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Heh... I was sitting at the kitchen table staring at the computer and I must have appeared really frustrated because my wife looked over at me and said "Just get the lenses you want..."

Yeah. I'm getting the Cookes. Done.

Which Cookes?

 

[Julio Quintana]

Which Cookes?

Cooke Panchro Lens Set T2.8 across
Cooke PANCHRO 18mm_____$8900
PANCHRO Set (25, 32, 50, 75, 100)___$33,600
Total
$42,500

 

[Tim Naylor]

I went with Cooke Panchro/i's.

Amazing lenses.

T/2.8 is slow. But cameras are faster now than ever, and only getting faster. Only 1 in 10 films I shoot requires DoF more shallow than T/2.8. In fact I shoot mainly at T4 or T5.6.

Point being... if you were shooting on a digital cinema camera three years ago you'd have done it at what? T/1.3 Superspeeds and at 320iso? Now the RedOneMX is getting great results at 800iso, Alexa is at 800iso, PhantomFlex is at 1000iso.... etc. The next series of cameras will be faster and cleaner.

If it's not part of the look, I don't want that super shallow DoF. T/2.8 is sometimes too much. Plus it helps 1st AC's sleep at night, and reduces the risk of flubbed takes or re-shoots b/c of difficult focus issues.

I've never been happier with a lens set in my life. At least try a set before you buy anything else.

For film out work, though, I never take the MX above 500 ASA, usually staying between 320-400. Broadcast, have yourself a ball and crank it up.

 

[Jeremy Benning]

Cooke Panchro/i - First 3D matched set in North America

Cooke Panchro/i - First 3D matched set in North America

Hey Everyone,

This is my first post to the forum... I was reading all the other posts in this thread about the Cooke Panchro/i lenses and wanted to chime in. I oddly enough became owner of set #1 of the Panchros last February (2010). Almost immediately I shot a feature with the RED MX, 2 cameras, out in the desert of British Columbia with them. We put those lenses through hell with the local talcum powder dust that was blasting us every day for 4 weeks. They held up, survived the torture - they just needed a good cleaning by Guy at ZGC, and they were back to new again.

The images we achieved with them were stunning, every bit as good as the S4s I have loved and used for many years. In fact we had an 18mm S4 (since my 18mm was not ready yet - I now have it) and there is no doubt how well the Panrchro and S4's match up. Combined with the RED MX, people can't believe we shot digitally. We did a 35mm film out in the end as well as HD CAM SR.

My fellow DP Ray Dumas and I had first met Les Zellan at NAB 2009, where we were shown the Panchro by him. We really liked the concept and idea behind these lenses, and somehow we became the first guys to place an order. We have both been using Cooke lenses for many many years. We wanted to bring them to Toronto.

We decided that the best idea for us would be to each order a set, and then have a matched pair for 3D. We talked to Les about this and that became the mission - as no one had asked for this yet other than the Scorcese team on "Hugo Cabret". Thankfully we knew some of the key systems techs on that show, so we were talking to them about how they were working with Cooke to get all of their glass to match, and we were doing with same with Cooke and our tests - which were to the same 3D standard as theirs. We worked together and shared info between us and Cooke to achieve what we needed.

Ray's lenses came in September, and that began a three month saga of testing and back and forthing with Les & Cooke to achieve a matched set. Three sets of lenses and three months later - we succeeded. Thanks to the patience of Les and the dedication of our stereographer Brent Robinson who put in many days of time testing the lenses with us.

Since I have been shooting largely RED MX and now Alexa - the T2.8 stop thing really hasn't been an issue for me. I have had one job in the last year where I needed Master Primes because we needed to shoot night and use some street lighting, and another shoot with the Phantom. On Afghan Luke I shot 1600 ASA in a few night scenes with the Pancrho's and it looks fantastic, and we had real fire as part of our light source.

Our one critique of the lenses from the get go was the inability to open the irises fully at 2.8. Meaning that on the 50, 75 and 100 - part of the iris leaves are still visible through the lens at wide open - leaving you with octagonal bokeh - which is not that pretty when you usually want circles in the b/g.

This was something Ray, Les, Guy and I worked together with the factory for months to solve. Les explained that the Panchros use the same iris assembly as the S4, so at 2.8 they don't fully retract, since they are made for T2. In the end, we worked together to add a circular T2.8 matte behind the iris in the 50mm and then removed the stopper on the iris to allow the blades to fully retract - leaving only the perfect circle matte visible through the lens. And voila - circular bokeh. Now all the lenses have circular bokeh at wide open...

I also have to say that the wait for the 18mm was worth it.. its fantastic.

So Ray and I are happy to be done with all the testing and work, and now we have our matched 3D set.

thats the scoop!

More shots of the lenses here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14492185@N00/sets/72157625725216465/

Jeremy Benning, csc
director of photography
Toronto, Canada
IATSE 667
---

www.jeremybenning.com

 

[Christopher Barrett]

Thanks for chiming in Jeremy. It makes me feel even better about the big wire transfer I sent ZGC yesterday

Question: Is Cooke now implementing your 2.8 matte in production of the Panchros?

Man, I can't wait to look through mine... 1 or 2 more weeks.

CB

and hey, what case is that they're sitting in? I was thinking of going with a Pelican rollaboard, which your's looks similar to.

 

[Jeremy Benning]

Hi Christopher,

As far as I am aware, all the Pancrhos now have this matte. Both our sets here have them now, and all lenses open to perfect circles. That is a Pelican 1560 case, Cooke supplied it and fit the foam for it. Ask Les for that... they charge $600 for it. I prefer Pelican because of the lifetime warranty and water/dust tightness.

We did have problems initially with the foam in the cases being too hard (the top and bottom layer). This resulted in damage to the 75mm's cam follower in Fedex shipping across Canada for a couple jobs. Because the lenses "stand up" in the case when you open the lid (its the only way they will fit in that case) they are subject to g-force trauma if the case is dropped on the flat side (the side it would lay on when opened).

Guy and the techs at ZGC also tweaked the focus and iris rings on some of our lenses as we found them too loose - compared the S4 movement. I noticed someone here commented on the same thing. They are all nice and buttery as you would expect on all Cookes.

Cooke refitted the case with softer foam top and bottom. Seems to have solved it, although I have had a minor cam follower problem with my 100mm since. My lens tech Mike Nadas at Sim Video Toronto feels its the case - that the lenses should be packed on their sides - but Guy at ZGC is not sure. We will be checking it out in a week when Guy comes to town to give Mike and I a rundown on service for the Pancrhos (Mike is already trained on the S4 and 5/i's). Mike really likes the design - but there are slight differences between the Panchros and the other Cookes, so he needs to get the low down now that we have two sets that Sim takes care of for us.

http://www.cookeoptics.com/cooke.nsf/experience/testimonials.html

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Thanks Jeremy for the killer review. These are definitely in my consideration and your work/confidence in them says a lot.

Also, I could easily see how -- if I owned these, and wanted to shoot a variety of independent features -- my cost would be substantially reduced over time by having them on hand (at $400-500 per day/$1500 per week, it only takes about 20-30 shooting days before they could be purchased/recouped) ...

And if I ever needed 1.4 then I just spend the $1000/day it takes to get rent the 5i -- and shoot my night/low light scenes in the most compressed possible time frame. Hey, it's film budgeting 101! LOL. But yeah, now starting to see the value here -- if you get identical S4 or 5i quality from 2.8 on up it's a pretty sexy proposition.

Now, they just need to make a full frame set for the FF35 Epic!

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Christopher, I think you'll be very happy with your purchase. First lens I had for my RED was a Cooke Technovision 18-90. It was a T2.7. I still miss the look of that lens. And now with M-X it would be looking even sweeter. Some of the best stuff that has been shot with my RED was shot on S4s. RPPs are very nice as well and an incredible value. But if you already know you like the Cooke look then this seems like a good way to go, especially given the price point.

Jeremy, thanks for providing the info about the matte behind the iris. And also very interesting about the issues with the case.

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Christopher, I think you'll be very happy with your purchase. First lens I had for my RED was a Cooke Technovision 18-90. It was a T2.7. I still miss the look of that lens. And now with M-X it would be looking even sweeter. Some of the best stuff that has been shot with my RED was shot on S4s. RPPs are very nice as well and an incredible value. But if you already know you like the Cooke look then this seems like a good way to go, especially given the price point.

Jeremy, thanks for providing the info about the matte behind the iris. And also very interesting about the issues with the case.

Hey Steve, thanks for the update on the teaser shoot with Mark, btw. Also, I'm curious since you have S4/MX experience -- on one previous 006 post Mark mentioned he thought the S4 might be a bit too "soft" for the Epic and I notice he has been using Master/Ultra Primes.

Do you see this as a concern? Since there are no Epics out, it's obviously a little hard for any of us to test this ... yet my preconception (without seeing footage) would be the opposite -- the Cooke look would be a nice compliment to the incredible detail, sharpness and resolution of the Epic.

Thoughts?

Anthony

 

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

Hey Steve, thanks for the update on the teaser shoot with Mark, btw. Also, I'm curious since you have S4/MX experience -- on one previous 006 post Mark mentioned he thought the S4 might be a bit too "soft" for the Epic and I notice he has been using Master/Ultra Primes.

Do you see this as a concern? Since there are no Epics out, it's obviously a little hard for any of us to test this ... yet my preconception (without seeing footage) would be the opposite -- the Cooke look would be a nice compliment to the incredible detail, sharpness and resolution of the Epic.

Thoughts?

Anthony

Can't say I've ever used Epic, but I highly doubt that is the case. Modern Cooke primes have been plenty sharp for RedMX, and celluloid film. I have no reason to believe it's any different for 5k. Common.

I guess that is the luxury of opinion given to the only man in the world who has one right now (who is not on 'Hobbit' or 'Spiderman'.) He could say that the Epic only works well lathered in peanut butter, and who are we to argue yet?

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Hey Steve, thanks for the update on the teaser shoot with Mark, btw. Also, I'm curious since you have S4/MX experience -- on one previous 006 post Mark mentioned he thought the S4 might be a bit too "soft" for the Epic and I notice he has been using Master/Ultra Primes.

Do you see this as a concern? Since there are no Epics out, it's obviously a little hard for any of us to test this ... yet my preconception (without seeing footage) would be the opposite -- the Cooke look would be a nice compliment to the incredible detail, sharpness and resolution of the Epic.

Thoughts?

Anthony

I have only seen Master Primes so far with Epic, but my guess is that the S4s will be fine on Epic. I know they will be one of the first lens sets I'll want to test as soon as I have the camera in my hands. Also looking forward to seeing the RPPs as well.

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Can't say I've ever used Epic, but I highly doubt that is the case. Modern Cooke primes have been plenty sharp for RedMX, and celluloid film. I have no reason to believe it's any different for 5k. Common.

I guess that is the luxury of opinion given to the only man in the world who has one right now (who is not on 'Hobbit' or 'Spiderman'.) He could say that the Epic only works well lathered in peanut butter, and who are we to argue yet?

Lol. Also, from what I remember it was a VERY passing comment and quick impression ... so I don't want to make it seem like Mark was saying they "suck" and I know he's in a very extensive testing process now, so I'm sure we'll get a much more informed, hands-on opinion from him soon.

I have only seen Master Primes so far with Epic, but my guess is that the S4s will be fine on Epic. I know they will be one of the first lens sets I'll want to test as soon as I have the camera in my hands. Also looking forward to seeing the RPPs as well.

Thanks Steve. Yes would be very eager to see how the S4's or 5i's (or Panchros!) look on the Epic ... and I must say I was pretty blown away by the image quality and bokeh that I saw from the Epic + MP combo from the shoot you were involved in. Thanks again and can't wait to see more of your behind the scenes stuff

 

[Tim Duran]

Steve S, you're right on the Master Primes. Don't think it would look too impressive for Jannard/Jarrad running around with a Lomo out in front. I do recall a shot with a new Lieca.

 

[Jarred Land]

New Lieca's are great.

I ironically ran around with a 100mm Lomo last week for a couple days on my Epic.. I dont know if I temporarily completely lost my mind , or if i was overcome by some romantic spell Sanjin put on me... but im cured now.

 

[C.H.Haskell]

How did you like the results Jarred? I have always liked the lomos. Having Glass insomnia.

Chris you have any cooke panchro test I could see that you would care to share? Sounds like your making a solid choice.

Whats the score on those Leicas?

 

[AnthonyFlores]

New Lieca's are great.

I ironically ran around with a 100mm Lomo last week for a couple days on my Epic.. I dont know if I temporarily completely lost my mind , or if i was overcome by some romantic spell Sanjin put on me... but im cured now.

Hey Jarred, yah curious if you're talking about the Leica S lenses or the Summilux C's .... I'm sure the C's are AWESOME, I think delivery for the initial customers should be starting anytime.

But I'm also hoping to see more people adopt the S lenses (other than me and Ketch, lol) so it will be worth Red's time to make the mount. These are the some of the best still lenses ever, here's the MTF charts ...

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-s2-forum/73103-mtf-charts-first-four-s-lenses.html

This are going to be some of the most fantastic ways to show off Epic's incredible resolution/detail as well as it's proficiency as a still camera.

I just hope it's not too difficult to make the mount or program the autofocus functioning for them

Anthony

P.S. -- I think Sanjin put me under his spell, I'm mentioning Leica almost every single day here

 

[C.H.Haskell]

I am with Anthony and Ketch on the S lens mount, I have not pulled the trigger yet as I dont know if RED will make this mount or not.

Shooting Leica S + EPIC combo would be dreamy, not to mention more economic then the Summilux Cs!

I believe they have about 3 or 4 lenses in that set but they are MF glass so not sure how the focal lengths translate.

Cheers

 

[Matthew Duclos]

I ironically ran around with a 100mm Lomo last week for a couple days on my Epic.

I'm sorry.