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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

One fear...

It really is all about the service. If you are not taking in enough capital then the first thing to go is service when supplying just equipment. Will "that guy" be ready for a phone call at 3AM saying "Hey I need help", I doubt it.
 
if your getting $400 a day and your package cost you 40k at the usual 3 day week rate thats 1200 a week. that covers your camera package in 40 weeks. in every other business I can think of making your investment back in less than a year is pretty good if you can manage to rent it out 40 weeks in a year. course thats no profit for the first year and all gravy for the second
 
Darren Orange said:
It really is all about the service. If you are not taking in enough capital then the first thing to go is service when supplying just equipment. Will "that guy" be ready for a phone call at 3AM saying "Hey I need help", I doubt it.
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why not...if three of them build a that guy gang...they can do a lot.

back to epic over scarlet rental:

there will always be special shootings where special prices will be paid...
producers have to understand why epic x should be used over scarlet ff 35
 
Bing Bailey said:
if your getting $400 a day and your package cost you 40k at the usual 3 day week rate thats 1200 a week. that covers your camera package in 40 weeks. in every other business I can think of making your investment back in less than a year is pretty good if you can manage to rent it out 40 weeks in a year. course thats no profit for the first year and all gravy for the second
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and this business model works for them.
the next thing will be getting scarlets and renting them out for 200-400 usd.
red ones who paid off in the meantime still can make money.
 
this has been happening in the music business for the last decade. the price of equipment gets lower every year. the budgets for albums get lower every year and with that most of the recording studios went out of business and a lot of people seem to be doing it from home studios. course that doesnt buy you experience or quality but it happened anyway. the same will happen with post production for film/video and equipment rentals
 
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  • #46
It's not so much the lowering of the cost of equipment and the increase in owner/operators that concerns me. It's that a $7,000 camera and a $43,000 camera do the exact same thing for a lot of productions.
 
Brook Willard said:
It's not so much the lowering of the cost of equipment and the increase in owner/operators that concerns me. It's that a $7,000 camera and a $43,000 camera do the exact same thing for a lot of productions.
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If by that you mean the visible difference for non high end clients on HD deliverables...this investment is not something I would rush into if I was depending on rental.
 
brook some of the features of epic might be a saving grace. if I had a choice I'd want to be able to over and under crank at full chip resolution not windowed and I'd want the ability to do ramping although I suspect a firmware update will make this possible in scarlet. then again I used the F900 on a feature 3 years ago and just put up with the fact it couldn't under or over crank because it was the best quality available at what I could afford at the time. RED has certainly turned the market upside down
 
Brook Willard said:
It's not so much the lowering of the cost of equipment and the increase in owner/operators that concerns me. It's that a $7,000 camera and a $43,000 camera do the exact same thing for a lot of productions.
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you really nailed it down.

but what if epic can:
different monitoring options for lcd evf hdsdi out.
native redcode 2xx can be easily edited and onlined? no pain in postworkflow
the postworklfow wasnt talked one time here.
this can seperate scarlet and epic.

but i dont like the idea to cripple a lower end thing in features.
 
I brought up the same concern in a post under the "Dec. 3rd Responses Here" thread. I'm repeating the main points here because the "Dec. 3rd" thread is so cluttered with redundant praise and general foolishness that the thread is practically worthless. No, it's completely worthless; far too much noise and far too little signal.

As it stands now, I plan to upgrade to Epic X and then buy a FF35 Scarlet body; I'll use the Scarlet as my "A" camera for sync shooting and the Epic X for my off-speed work. All this for under 20K; wow.

I know the cost of the body is just one part of the total package price, but I do see the FF35 Scarlet doing violence to Red package rates.

A 2/3" chip Scarlet is perfect for a huge market segment; 35MM Scarlets compete with their much more costly Epics. Perhaps it's quite different in the motion picture camera market, but other products have had their brand value diminished when they introduced economy models.

Still having two camera bodies, the Epic X and Scarlet FF35 for less than 20K is very attractive, so that's my chosen path for now. If the market demands the FF35 Epic, we can always add that to the party, but I do worry about selling clients on the added value of Epic over Scarlet, especially in the rate wars that are sure to come.

Hang on, guys, it's going to be quite a ride!

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Leo Ticheli said:
I brought up the same concern in a post under the "Dec. 3rd Responses Here" thread. I'm repeating the main points here because the "Dec. 3rd" thread is so cluttered with redundant praise and general foolishness that the thread is practically worthless. No, it's completely worthless; far too much noise and far too little signal.

As it stands now, I plan to upgrade to Epic X and then buy a FF35 Scarlet body; I'll use the Scarlet as my "A" camera for sync shooting and the Epic X for my off-speed work. All this for under 20K; wow.

I know the cost of the body is just one part of the total package price, but I do see the FF35 Scarlet doing violence to Red package rates.

A 2/3" chip Scarlet is perfect for a huge market segment; 35MM Scarlets compete with their much more costly Epics. Perhaps it's quite different in the motion picture camera market, but other products have had their brand value diminished when they introduced economy models.

Still having two camera bodies, the Epic X and Scarlet FF35 for less than 20K is very attractive, so that's my chosen path for now. If the market demands the FF35 Epic, we can always add that to the party, but I do worry about selling clients on the added value of Epic over Scarlet, especially in the rate wars that are sure to come.

Hang on, guys, it's going to be quite a ride!

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
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as of now that plan was in my mind too....but then again is it even possible to do these two things when your turn arrived?


and with epic ff 35 you would have the same in one body
 
I think timing is a major factor here that hasn't been addressed. If you can get your camera in the first batch and be the new kid on the block with the newest, best toy there will be a lot of demand for your gear and you will be thought of as an authority in clients minds even when the market gets saturated. Ask Gibby, Silverado Studios or Offhollywood if their ROI was worth the innitial investment. Timing is everything! Most people will pay a small premium for service, and ease. Dealing with someone new is always a risk and new camera systems will always be considered risky as is.
There are no gaurantees in this world just informed and thoughtful guesses:-)
 
I think Red maybe risking more than rental houses? I think Red will do fine because the ''Pros'' who can afford the best, will get the best.

What I fear is that people who wish to corner the market, whether rental houses/DPs etc., are never going to be happy and would wish Red would stop giving great cameras for lower prices, even if they couldn't do anything before Red came along! Red helped some, make money, by giving them something that they could never afford. Those people who were so unhappy with the camera price fixing/held back technology/monopoly/etc., are now becoming the same as the people they hated. Irony is life. I hope that isn't happening?

People must not be afraid and just adapt and be confident in themselves and their work first. If someone can be successful from starting a business out of a garage then....
 
Joseph Ward said:
I think Red maybe risking more than renal houses? I think Red will do fine because the ''Pros'' who can afford the best, will get the best.

What I fear is that people who wish to corner the market, whether rental houses/DPs etc., are never going to be happy and would wish Red would stop giving great cameras for lower prices, even if they couldn't do anything before Red came along! Red helped some, make money, by giving them something that they could never afford. Those people who were so unhappy with the camera price fixing/held back technology/monopoly/etc., are now becoming the same as the people they hated. Irony is life. I hope that isn't happening?

People must not be afraid and just adapt and be confident in themselves and their work first. If someone can be successful from starting a business out of a garage then....
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yes i dont like the idea of crippeling things too.
as of now i just see that scarlet s35 and scarlet ff35 can do 90% of the jobs.


scarlet is really really good and i like it.
epic is really good too.
its a hard decision
 
mikeburton said:
I think timing is a major factor here that hasn't been addressed. If you can get your camera in the first batch and be the new kid on the block with the newest, best toy there will be a lot of demand for your gear and you will be thought of as an authority in clients minds even when the market gets saturated. Ask Gibby, Silverado Studios or Offhollywood if their ROI was worth the innitial investment. Timing is everything! Most people will pay a small premium for service, and ease. Dealing with someone new is always a risk and new camera systems will always be considered risky as is.
There are no gaurantees in this world just informed and thoughtful guesses:-)
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i should buy a used red under serial no. 100 delivered in the 1st two batches...anybody selling?
 
All this talk about software passcodes and unlocking features is quite silly. I'd rather have the cam sooner than later, later being after 30 more rounds of "wouldn't it be cool if it had build in wings and and AM/FM radio..?"

These configs rock—any system will have strengths and weaknesses. My job is to figure out how to use both to my advantage.
 
As most Red owners know (or have discovered the hard way) it's pretty essential to own or have access to a back-up body (especially true during the early days of the camera's development). Owning two Epics might be financially prohibitive but owning one Epic and a back-up Scarlet could be more realistic and also mean you're covered for the situation Brook is worried about (i.e. missing out on potential Scarlet jobs because your camera is overly specced and priced). Just my $0.02...
 
David Wyatt said:
As most Red owners know (or have discovered the hard way) it's pretty essential to own or have access to a back-up body (especially true during the early days of the camera's development). Owning two Epics might be financially prohibitive but owning one Epic and a back-up Scarlet could be more realistic and also mean you're covered for the situation Brook is worried about (i.e. missing out on potential Scarlet jobs because your camera is overly specced and priced). Just my $0.02...
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If you upgrade to the Epic, you'll have your RED ONE as a backup body...
 
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