'Old Fashioned' Film Making

[Andrew Rieger]

For example, Kubrick's first great film, The Killing, has a completely fractured chronology. It was made in 1955. Anyone here who hasn't seen it should do themselves a favor and watch it. It's amazing, one of Kubrick's best films, and relatively unknown, being unfortunately overshadowed by all of Kubrick's great later work.

Another film that immediately springs to mind is Out of the Past, directed by the great Jacques Tourneur. It's one of the great film noirs, made in 1947, and again sports a chronologically fractured structure. Again, anyone interested in noir, or simply great achronological storytelling (not to mention stunning cinematography) could do a lot worse than checking this film out.

Thank you so much for mentioning these films. My father is a film buff and studies the film noir period extensively so I was raised on these films and many others (black and white is still my preferred medium). Anyways, when most think of Kubrick, they think the shining, full metal jacket, 2001 ect but his early films are excellent as well, namely paths of glory and lolita. Out of the past is a noir classic and certainly one of the best examples of that period in film history. It is actually my father's favorite film of all time, so much so that we have visited some of the scene locations in bridgeport, california. I am probably one of the few people under 20, not in film school who seen both of these films, multiple times. Great to see other noir fans on this site.

 

[Elsie N]

Thank you so much for mentioning these films. My father is a film buff and studies the film noir period extensively so I was raised on these films and many others (black and white is still my preferred medium).

Some of those old film noir movies must have been inexpensive to make. Bet they've paid for themselves many times over just from payments from old movie channels on cable.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

I believe that movies as art forms are still in their youth trying to find their place. fads will come and go but a good movie is a good movie and will always be appreciated as long as you can get people to watch it.

I think we should spend less time worrying about being relevant and what other people are doing and start focusing on our own style and work.

If you don't want to join them, beat them.

 

[Rick Burnett]

I don't think this is an old versus young thing, I think it's a matter of tried and true and following patterns of what has existed before. We were in discussions about two films we are doing. The first I wrote the script for, the second a good friend wrote.

For my script I had spent a great deal of time weaving a science fiction thriller through history and building up a great handful of likable and non-likable characters. The first question from the producer I wrote this for was "What movie is this like and how much money did that movie make". Needless to say, after that, I pulled myself out of that project. I do understand the need to make money, but the fact he was expecting me to copy another movie, it just set the tone wrong and I decided that I would not be involved with the writing of that movie anymore.

The second movie, I am a producer on it. The investors instantly didn't like the film because there was no clear male lead role. They wanted to put some one in the role they had in mind, regardless of the story. We pulled away from them and we are self financing the film.

I mention this because I think a lot of great stories get lost because the person who wrote them is at the wrong place talking to the wrong people. Business people don't like to take risks if they can help it generally.

One movie that absolutely amazes me is 'Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind', was absolutely brilliant. Many people haven't even heard of it.

That said, I'd LOVE to see one of those charts in the first couple posts for 'Lost Highway' or 'Muhalland Drive'

 

[Jason Murphy]

Thank you so much for mentioning these films. My father is a film buff and studies the film noir period extensively so I was raised on these films and many others (black and white is still my preferred medium). Anyways, when most think of Kubrick, they think the shining, full metal jacket, 2001 ect but his early films are excellent as well, namely paths of glory and lolita. Out of the past is a noir classic and certainly one of the best examples of that period in film history. It is actually my father's favorite film of all time, so much so that we have visited some of the scene locations in bridgeport, california. I am probably one of the few people under 20, not in film school who seen both of these films, multiple times. Great to see other noir fans on this site.

Out of the Past is one of my favorite films as well; to my mind, it's the greatest film of the classic noir style, which includes some of the greatest American films of the period. Seeing the locations in Bridgeport sounds awesome; would love to be able to do that sometime.

Anyway, also glad to see another noir fan on the site. And again, people here who haven't had the chance yet to see Out of the Past should really go out of their way to fix that in the near future. Particularly if non-linear narrative is of interest to you.

 

[Andrew Rieger]

It would be great if we could list our favorite noir films, possibly in another thread.

Interesting piece of Out of the Past trivia, when he drives into Bridgeport at the beginning of the film, he is going southbound on 395 but when he pulls into the gas station, he is driving northbound. The gas station is no longer there, it has been converted into some other building which is unfortunate.

 

[alexwhitmer]

Noir - another brilliant genre I would love to see more of. Gumshoes, Dames and really cool cars. I think I need to find a weekend where I can revisit some old faves and look up some I have yet to see.

 

[J. P. Sendall]

If some people are thinking this is a generation gap thing then I would disagree. My argument is based on one company alone - Pixar. They bridge that gap like no other company I know. However they do not aim towards anything non-linear. Perhaps there is a good reason for it that we are missing somewhere in this discussion. It might be simply something to do with the way the brain develops and matures. Older people have the experience to appreciate non-linear whereas a younger mind might not. However an older mind can still appreciate a linear story so there you have your common ground and the basis for more popular movies.

 

[Elsie N]

If some people are thinking this is a generation gap thing then I would disagree. My argument is based on one company alone - Pixar. They bridge that gap like no other company I know. However they do not aim towards anything non-linear. Perhaps there is a good reason for it that we are missing somewhere in this discussion. It might be simply something to do with the way the brain develops and matures. Older people have the experience to appreciate non-linear whereas a younger mind might not. However an older mind can still appreciate a linear story so there you have your common ground and the basis for more popular movies.

J. P., I concur with your conclusions and will add my thoughts to yours.

While some of the differences between younger and older "brains" may be related to amyloid plaques I think the majority of it is the experience factor. The speed of modern day technology seems to have increased the speed of our thinking to react quickly to ever changing situations. Younger brains are schooled from the beginning to work this way, and thus are probably more able to follow a multi-threaded story as shown in the graph posted by Chris Witzkie earlier in this thread. Unfortunately, this may also be fostering a self-absorbed generation that responds to metal movies like Transformers and Iron Man. Plus, that younger brain is more comfortable in chaos because it can better follow the multi-threaded movie.

More experienced brains have probably lived some of the chaos and just want order in their lives and entertainment?

Society needs a good balance between both types, IMO.

Just an observation from my perspective.

 

[Erik Franzén]

Society needs a good balance between both types, IMO.

As someone from this new, mysteriously chaotic generation, I only have one thing to add: this, this and more this!

 

[Elsie N]

As someone from this new, mysteriously chaotic generation, I only have one thing to add: this, this and more this!

:laugh:Erik, good attitude... especially since one day you will become part of the amyloid plaque generation:yesnod:... unless of course someone from your generation comes up with a cure or prevention for the condition:grouphug:

 

[alexwhitmer]

some doubt of your own relevancy.

I think this is part of it, yes.

Not sure where the line between life experience and irrelevance crosses.

 

[Elsie N]

I think this is part of it, yes.

Not sure where the line between life experience and irrelevance crosses.

I could recognize it because I've felt it before. My way out of it was to continue to learn. No matter what field one chooses to learn in, becoming knowledgable in that field means that your vast store of knowledge will trump newcomers who are proficient in the latest knowledge base, but may be deficient in the previous knowledge base. Being able to bridge that gap makes you indispensable.

For instance, in research medicine there have been discoveries that medicines from the 50's used for one thing, are found to now be viable for treating a different illness even better than modern drugs. Don't know if an experienced researcher made the connection or a lucky newcomer. But you get my point.

Never accept defeat until the pain is so excruciating that a pain free defeat is better than a painful win. That's my motto... as of a few seconds ago when I thought of it.:coolgleamA:

 

[J. P. Sendall]

The speed of modern day technology seems to have increased the speed of our thinking to react quickly to ever changing situations.

Who was that once said if man could sit quietly alone in a room the world would have far fewer problems?

Perhaps paradoxically to some people when I sit still, I am quiet, my mind can go further, think deeper and travel faster than I have ever done before. It's basis for some of my best writing. I don't need the frenetic speed of modern living to do that and I don't think young people need it either. Just to be clear I'm not arguing against any opinion in this thread just saying what I have discovered for myself. A lot of information is junk and I try to dump it as often as a I can.

 

[Jason Murphy]

Amen to that JP. Much of the fast pace, I've found, actually actively works against the creative impulse, at least for me. Still learning how to balance all of that for myself, but you're absolutely right about the stillness and solitude.

 

[Erik Franzén]

:laugh:Erik, good attitude... especially since one day you will become part of the amyloid plaque generation:yesnod:... unless of course someone from your generation comes up with a cure or prevention for the condition:grouphug:

Yes, I always try to remember that having a good balance is important. It's easy to forget that and quite disastrous sometimes. As for amyloid plaque -- nah, Jim will invent nanites by 2019! :emote_22_yikes:
I don't know if I am in the minority (in my age bracket, I might very well be!) but I strongly believe that a balance between new and old is desperately needed. When that part is lost, something of the whole magic goes away. It might have something to do with my rather unique perspective of thinking of movies more as communication through a story with visual and audible content while others think of them as stories -- again, I might not be alone in thinking of them this way; but I am yet to met a larger majority who agrees with me!
That's why I find it sad that there isn't more opportunistic individuals who take advantage of this and use this barrier-free language to create some powerful performances of art! Again, I know that isn't the case with everyone (or maybe not even a majority :shocked but it sure as hell does feel like it in my age bracket.
Okay, rant off! ... almost :emote_hippie:

Who was that once said if man could sit quietly alone in a room the world would have far fewer problems?

Perhaps paradoxically to some people when I sit still, I am quiet, my mind can go further, think deeper and travel faster than I have ever done before. It's basis for some of my best writing. I don't need the frenetic speed of modern living to do that and I don't think young people need it either. Just to be clear I'm not arguing against any opinion in this thread just saying what I have discovered for myself. A lot of information is junk and I try to dump it as often as a I can.

I find creativity flows everywhere. Through the daily life (shopping, school, office, dealing with various situations as they arise, etc.), meditation (oh yes, I said it! ), physical exercise and what have you.
It's all about finding what the centerpiece is about. What is it you need to solve in your movie RIGHT NOW? Finding the persona for one of your characters? Finding a central theme to connect with? Furthering the story? Polishing? Pacing?
I find every little tidbit of inspiration important. That's why I can spend what might seem to others as ridiculous amount of hours plowing through dozens of OST(s), various famous film-themes and everything in-between. That's also why I practically (for better or worse!) can't stop thinking about film -- it's all around me! :lol:
Finding the 'zen moment' where you realize exactly what you need for the film to make it one step closer to complete harmony (yes, I deplore the word 'perfection') is...well, simply put -- it's just beautiful and one of the most fulfilling experiences! Not as fulfilling as seeing a movie go to completion (thou I have to get back to you on that one, still haven't bested making one from start to end :gun.

OK, rant mode off! :rant:

 

[J. P. Sendall]

I think this is part of it, yes.

Not sure where the line between life experience and irrelevance crosses.

It could be said nothing is irrelevant. It's only a micro shift in point of view that makes something relevant. A scene in a film may seem dumb but then suddenly there is that small shift and it tips into something that is personal.

I find creativity flows everywhere. Through the daily life (shopping, school, office, dealing with various situations as they arise, etc.), meditation (oh yes, I said it! ), physical exercise and what have you.
It's all about finding what the centerpiece is about.

I agree. There's that funny story about a monk who meditates up in the mountains and when he comes down people constantly bump into him in the street and he gets annoyed! So he's learnt nothing really. It was a false quiet he experienced. Working with some real pros you can instantly sense the quiet in the storm (that is film production).

 

[David Rasberry]

I agree. There's that funny story about a monk who meditates up in the mountains and when he comes down people constantly bump into him in the street and he gets annoyed! So he's learnt nothing really. It was a false quiet he experienced. Working with some real pros you can instantly sense the quiet in the storm (that is film production).

I read a news story once about a Tibetan monk making a trip to India. He stopped to help some stranded students whose school bus had stopped running. Though he had never seen a motor vehicle up close in his life, he was able to spot the problem and fix it. Perhaps an example of true enlightenment.